The real problem | Imamother

amother

Anemone

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 7:47 pm

I already do the walmart target gap shopping, non fleishigs for every night supper. (supper for 10 people plus toddler/baby can sometimes cost $10-$20) I don't remember the last time we went on vacation aside from visiting family (yes that is priority). discounted tuition, husband works two jobs and freelances in his 'spare time', cleaning lady once a week (with a family my size that is miniscule but a necessity)
We are not making it every month. Yes there are things here some may say to cut back but I am stretched too thin already. This is not high standards...it is just high cost of living.

amother

Pansy

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 7:58 pm

I totally agree that it’s the necessities that are killing us.
We bought a house when prices and rates were lower so we pay $2.5k a month for a small home that could really use updating and expanding. If we were paying full tuition that would be $6k a month. That’s $100k after tax before touching a single other expense.

amother

Nasturtium

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 8:01 pm

amother Garnet wrote:

I don’t think we have high standards of living. Before we even talk about toys or clothes, monthly survival costs :
3k housing (and we don’t have a huge house)
2.2k daycare/ tuitions for all kids
1k food (that’s with carefully shopping sales and making most snacks myself )
500 car insurance, electric , water etc

My husband and I together bring home 7k after taxes. So that doesn’t leave a whole lot for the extras, whether it's medical bills or new pajamas.

But that 7k is way less than 250 per year as op said is needed.

amother

Nasturtium

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 8:04 pm

amother Smokey wrote:

Here’s what I think:
We ideally should be able to afford what most of our parents did twenty years ago. Fleishig for dinner and an occasional steak. Braces. Daycamp. Local vacation once in a while.

But prices on basics such as food, tuition, cars, homes, and daycamp have risen so much that it feels much harder to manage that same middle class lifestyle.

I agree that clothing and simchas and presents for chosson kalah have become insane and I think that’s where we can cut back

I mean, I was at a Jeweler this week and he told me that nowadays everyone upgrades their diamond ring to at least double the size of the original because they don't want their rings to be the same size of their daughters-in-law.

amother

Lightgray

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 8:05 pm

amother Nasturtium wrote:

Please tell me you're not serious!

amother

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 8:16 pm

amother Nasturtium wrote:

But that 7k is way less than 250 per year as op said is needed.

I do think 250k is in the upper range (say a family with 10 children, paying 10 tuitions, camp and braces). And before you say camp is a luxury, some yeshivas/communities do make it mandatory.

Also, 250k can easily turn into 150k after taxes and medical insurance etc, which is not even so much money really.

amother

Blushpink

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 8:19 pm

amother Lightgray wrote:

Please tell me you're not serious!

10 year anniversary calls for a 10k eternity band ring and 20 year anniversary you trade it in for a 20k one. Seriously.

amother

Lightgray

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 8:23 pm

amother Blushpink wrote:

10 year anniversary calls for a 10k eternity band ring and 20 year anniversary you trade it in for a 20k one. Seriously.

Golly. And I want to trade my diamond in for a CZ. We have bills to pay but dh won't let me. Married 30 years.

amother

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 8:24 pm

amother Blushpink wrote:

10 year anniversary calls for a 10k eternity band ring and 20 year anniversary you trade it in for a 20k one. Seriously.

Ok. These are either the wealthy or people who are not exactly honest with their income. I personally don't know anyone like this, honestly. If they are not being honest, not jealous at all, and if they are wealthy, I let them enjoy their wealth!

I don't think this is the only problem that the financial advisors are seeing when people come to them for help...

People who are buying double-the-size diamonds when they can't pay their bills need a psychiatrist, not a financial advisor.

amother

Smokey

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 8:26 pm

amother Nasturtium wrote:

People need to not be like everyone…

My mil is a woman of means. But when we got married her earrings were the same size as mine, and a few years later dh gifted me with a tennis bracelet same size as hers. She doesn’t wear an eternity band. She did upgrade at age 70 to a gorgeous huge pair of earrings but that was after having the same size as her dils for 20 years!

People do not need to be so conformist

(I myself never got a kallah bracelet bec I’m not conformist)

amother

Brunette

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 8:32 pm

These comments about standards are so annoying.

Basic life is insanely expensive.

250k a year is 150k after taxes and deductions.

150k becomes 80k after full tuition and day camp for an average size frum family. Daycamp necessary because both parents work

80k is really very little to live on for a family of say 8 to 10 people.

This is not high standards. This is taxes and tuition.

amother

Brunette

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 8:34 pm

amother Nasturtium wrote:

Ok and you believed him why?

amother

Garnet

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 8:35 pm

amother Nasturtium wrote:

But that 7k is way less than 250 per year as op said is needed.

Our 7k is actually 150k pretax / deductions.
And our family is not big. So a family double the size who has double the tuition and double the food can easily hit 250 on necessities

amother

NeonOrange

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 8:40 pm

amother Eggplant wrote:

Another problem is the high standards of living. Everybody wants to live like the rich whether they can afford it or not.

This exactly this

amother

Amaryllis

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 8:48 pm

We make 250 pretax. We’re not making it. No jewish clothing or shoes. Only cheap grocery. No cleaning help. Do my sheitel myself. No vacations - last one was 7 yrs ago. Between food, tuition, clothing, camp, therapies we are in the red every single month. Everything is a fortune now and the percentage we make compared to our expenses aren’t the same they were had my parents had the same expenses and made the same amount of money. Things were simply cheaper back then and the your dollar lasted longer.

amother

Nasturtium

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 8:54 pm

amother Garnet wrote:

Our 7k is actually 150k pretax / deductions.
And our family is not big. So a family double the size who has double the tuition and double the food can easily hit 250 on necessities

OT, but-
That's a lot of taxes.
I'm assuming you get it back in a refund?

BaltoMom65

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 8:55 pm

amother OP wrote:

So many threads on the same topic! And everybody's so upset. I think that we're all saying the same thing just in many different ways:

LIFE HAS BECOME UNAFFORDABLE FOR EVERYBODY EXCEPT THE RICH.

Prices of everything has gone up. Food, clothing, cars, utilities, tuition. Wages have not gone up in the same way. Some of the benefits that many have gotten due to covid - free health insurance, extra food stamps, PPP and and ERC for business owners - are now gone.

I follow some financial professionals on LinkedIn, and they are unanimous that it can easily cost 250k minimum for an average frum family just to get by, and that's simply not what everyone is making.

There are so, so many struggling families. And, if someone is honest about their income and on programs, they are definitely struggling as well. (I'm not in the least but jealous of those who are making it through fraudulent means).

Am I right?

Correct! There is a cost of living crisis in the western world!!