Who is right in this situation

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Forum -> Relationships -> Manners & Etiquette

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View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother

Pewter

Tue, Apr 16 2024, 9:35 pm

amother OP wrote:

Kids of all ages.
It kept going back, then stopped. Forth, then stopped.....
The adults were getting annoyed by it as well at that point.

It obviously wasn't parked if people were sitting in the car and it kept moving.

Sounds like the kids just wanted to play. And the adults don't like strangers on their street. I get the annoyance but you don't own the street.

amother

Tue, Apr 16 2024, 9:38 pm

amother Pewter wrote:

To adults, it obviously wasn't parked. To kids, it looked like the car was parked.
We don't own the steet. We don't care about strangers on the street. But this particular situation, was annoying & unsafe.

And don't forget that they were in a no stopping/no standing/no parking zone.

amother

Pewter

Tue, Apr 16 2024, 9:39 pm

amother OP wrote:

And that's why adults should always be supervising kids.

amother

Dimgray

Tue, Apr 16 2024, 9:46 pm

Really wrong of that instructor. You were way too nice. If the instructor comes back then point at the sign and let them know you’ll be reporting them to traffic enforcement.

amother

Tue, Apr 16 2024, 9:47 pm

amother Pewter wrote:

And that's why adults should always be supervising kids.

The kids were supervised in an age appropriate way.

amother

Grape

Tue, Apr 16 2024, 9:50 pm

(I’m sure all the adults on the block tsking about this always respect the No standing/no parking/no stopping at the end of the dead end too.).

amother

Tue, Apr 16 2024, 9:52 pm

amother Grape wrote:

(I’m sure all the adults on the block tsking about this always respect the No standing/no parking/no stopping at the end of the dead end too.).

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but the only people that park in the dead end on a daily basis, are non jews that live in a nearby development and have more than one car they need to park.
We all have a driveway. No one parks on the street ever. The only people that do park/stand there are people that don't live on the street.

amother

NeonBlue

Tue, Apr 16 2024, 10:00 pm

WhatFor wrote:

Everyone is wrong here but from a legal perspective you're probably more wrong. I grew up on a similar type of setting and we did the same. I loved it. We all played in the street. We knew to run out when the occasional car came or when a neighbor came home. But technically, the street is for cars, not kids.

Maybe the teacher thought this was a nice quiet place to teach a student to turn. Technically, it's not an improper use of the street while he could argue that kids playing there is an improper use of the street.

Do I think he was lacking in basic mentchlichkeit to pull up to a street full of kids and practice driving there? Yes. Do I think he was putting the kids at risk, even if their parents should have herded them away? Yes. Do I think that it was a liability for himself if anything happened, and therefore extremely dumb for multiple reasons? Yes.

But was he allowed to do that? Yes. And at that point, the proper thing for parents to do would have been to pull their kids out of the street and teach their kids about street safety, not dig their heels in about the driver. If you wanted to turn your street into a limited use street, you'd probably have to apply to some local board for that, and I'm not sure how easy it would be to get them to agree. But look into it, it doesn't hurt.

The problem is that at least where I live they always come back to the same streets.

I would ask him nicely. It’s not about legalities it’s about common sense, no one was calling the cops.

WhatFor

Tue, Apr 16 2024, 10:44 pm

amother NeonBlue wrote:

The problem is that at least where I live they always come back to the same streets.

I would ask him nicely. It’s not about legalities it’s about common sense, no one was calling the cops.

I agree that he might come back which is why, if OP wants them to not do that, she/her neighbors should apply to make that street for limited use.

Of course in a question of "who is wrong", the law is ultimately going to prevail, both in terms of explaining expectations and also in terms of what remedies the OP has. If this was a question about mentchlichkeit, and the OP was the driving school teacher, I'd be responding differently, and telling the teacher the same things I wrote in my earlier post. In fact, OP, if this driving teacher doesn't own the school, you might want to call the driving school and complain. They might tell the teacher to stop because ultimately it does create a liability for them if something happened to a kid (even if the kid was wrong, just fighting these things can be a headache.) But if the teacher owns the school, they obviously don't care and that's not a solution.

But in any case, it's not the driving teacher asking the question, it's a parent of a child who wants to use the street as a playground. It's not clear to me that the driver was violating any traffic rules by using a corner with a "no parking/stopping /standing", especially if they weren't stopping/ standing/ parking in that area. OP's complaint is that the kids didn't get that a moving car wasn't parked even though the adults did, so it created a danger to the kids. That's more of an argument for why the kids need better supervision around the street, not really an argument for why cars shouldn't be doing car things on their street. But if OP is confident that the driver is actually breaking a driving rule, she can simply walk up to the driver and point to the sign and tell them they're violating that rule. She's not going to win on her argument about kids being there, because the driver doesn't care.

amother

Dimgray

Tue, Apr 16 2024, 10:48 pm

WhatFor wrote:

How would you practice parking without stopping or standing? I agree op should simply point at the sign and not bring up the kids. She should take pictures of the instructors car and license plate and the position of the car relative to the street.

tichellady

Tue, Apr 16 2024, 11:05 pm

amother OP wrote:

From a legal perspective, the dead end is a no stopping no standing no parking zone.
The car was basically parked, but going back & forth on the same spot for about 20 minutes. Little kids didn't realize that the car isn't parked.
The kids all went off the road when they saw the car. They know to do that.

Is there a sign that says that?

B'Syata D'Shmya

Tue, Apr 16 2024, 11:08 pm

amother OP wrote:

We live on a small quiet dead end, 12 families. The dead end is a no parking, no stopping, no standing zone.
The kids play at the end of the dead end where there are generally no cars. The dead end was full of kids today, and a car comes with a driving teacher & student, and they started practicing U turns & parallel parking. Right there with kids running in the back & front of the car. The kids went off the road, but they thought the car parked so they kept going back on the street to play. The driver missed a kid by afew inches several times.
I went over to the car , and asked them if they can please find a quieter place because there are kids playing there. The instructor gave me such attitude & kept saying "it's legal." He made me seem as if I'm crazy and doing something wrong by asking. He eventually went away when he saw a male neighbor approaching.
So was I wrong in this situation?

You can ask, but the street is legal and its actually a great place for the student driver to learn.
Kids should not be playing in the street even in your scenario - its dangerous and a bad habit.
Sorry, but its a chillul Hashem situation.

GLUE

Tue, Apr 16 2024, 11:10 pm

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

The OP wrote that it is a No Stopping, No Standing, No Parking Zone which makes it not a legal place.

B'Syata D'Shmya

Tue, Apr 16 2024, 11:15 pm

amother OP wrote:

I'm actually wondering more about the manners/mentchlichkeit part, then the legal part. I believe that just because something may be legal (which may not even be the case here), it doesn't mean that we should be doing it.

Driving instructors are not known for their manners/mentchlichkeit!!
Whats really bothering you here? You were jolted when a kid almost got killed. Blaming the driver is an easy out, even if they are guilty, its your kid they are hurting. Please take steps to keep your kids safe.

B'Syata D'Shmya

Tue, Apr 16 2024, 11:30 pm

GLUE wrote:

The OP wrote that it is a No Stopping, No Standing, No Parking Zone which makes it not a legal place.

Actually she wrote that the NonJews from other buildings, park there. So I think you misunderstood.
If OP was legally in the right, she would have had a different conversation with the instructor - just whip out your phone, take a picture and call the police...

amother

Tue, Apr 16 2024, 11:37 pm

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

We do our part in keeping our kids safe.

amother

Tue, Apr 16 2024, 11:39 pm

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

It is a no parking/no standing/no stopping zone.
Even if non jews park there for the night.
No, I am not calling the police or interested in causing a fuss. I just thought that a frum person would be understanding. I'm really not the confrontational type & this left me feeling really bothered.

amother

Rose

Tue, Apr 16 2024, 11:39 pm

Goodness I can't believe some of these responses.

OP of course you were right, the driving instructor was wrong.

People are getting stuck on the legalities and whether children belong playing in the street. None of this matters. It's literally common sense. A group of children are playing on a dead end block, no, of course it's not the place to practice parking.

amother

Tue, Apr 16 2024, 11:40 pm

tichellady wrote:

Is there a sign that says that?

Yes, several signs. Every few feet.

amother

Tue, Apr 16 2024, 11:42 pm

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

It's not legal to stop, stand, or park there.
But my question is more about the mentchlichkeit part of it. If it was mentchlichkeit/mannered of the instructor to do what he did & if I was wrong of asking them if they can find a different place.

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