I let guests stay in my empty house (what to think??)

amother

Khaki

Wed, May 01 2024, 12:15 pm

amother OP wrote:

Thx will do!

P.s you sound very entitled in your post. I have ZERO problem with them not wanting to be recorded. I didn’t leave them on intentionally I just didn’t think of it. They could have asked and I happily would have said to disable to baby room camera (and pls don’t touch anything else I’ll turn off the doorbell cameras for Shabbos)

And they have noticed it right before candle lighting and had no time/way to contact you....

amother

Wed, May 01 2024, 12:18 pm

amother Khaki wrote:

And they have noticed it right before candle lighting and had no time/way to contact you....

Nope. They came Sunday morning and pulled the baby room plug immediately. I left to my in-laws sat night as it’s a long drive..

amother

Midnight

Wed, May 01 2024, 12:18 pm

amother OP wrote:

Not entitled but thanks. I never go away or stay at anyones house but if I would, its a basic right to not be recorded on camera.

amother

Wed, May 01 2024, 12:22 pm

amother Midnight wrote:

Not entitled but thanks. I never go away or stay at anyones house but if I would, its a basic right to not be recorded on camera.

It’s also basic menschlachkite not to touch other people’s things without asking first. It’s not a huge leap to assume it was an over sight and we just forgot about it .. But let’s just agree to disagree

watergirl

Wed, May 01 2024, 12:24 pm

amother OP wrote:

That’s my issue with a lot of peoples comments, they are assuming you emotionally left the baby room camera on for some reason. You were very clear in your very first post that it’s a set and forget it kind of thing that didn’t even cross your mind as you were packing to leave.

amother

Midnight

Wed, May 01 2024, 12:35 pm

watergirl wrote:

I dont assume that but if you get mad that they unplug it, I will point out that they probably got freaked out and have a right to privacy.

watergirl

Wed, May 01 2024, 12:46 pm

amother Midnight wrote:

I dont assume that but if you get mad that they unplug it, I will point out that they probably got freaked out and have a right to privacy.

A few things can be true at the same time.

It's true OP just didn't think about it.
It's true the guest freaked out.

The guest should have asked their mutual contact to reach out to the host to 1) tell them they are unplugging or better yet, ask if they can and if host says no, they can go pay for accommodations 2) ask if there are any more they should know about.

amother

DarkYellow

Wed, May 01 2024, 2:47 pm

To me this is the conclusion.

OP, I'm sorry your cameras were tampered with without your permission.

For future, my thoughts (if you want to hear them...)

When you lend, only do it if you feel completely comfortable and trust the middleman. Here you can't even get this off your chest properly because you don't want to hurt the middleman.

I personally have no issue lending my apartment privacy-wise, but I have to be able to communicate with the middleman or it's a no-go.

ora_43

Thu, May 02 2024, 1:51 am

watergirl wrote:

I don't think anyone is accusing OP of deliberately spying on them.

But whether or not she intended to, the end result was a situation where guests came into a place assuming it was private, then realized they were being recorded. It's not surprising that they would detach the cameras.

And about assumptions - do we know for sure that they went into the other rooms? OP says "all the plugs were pulled from the outlet" - they went into every room, found the camera, and detached it? Or they pulled a bunch of plugs from one central outlet somewhere, because they didn't know which plug went to what?

ora_43

Thu, May 02 2024, 1:58 am

watergirl wrote:

1) tell them they are unplugging or better yet, ask if they can and if host says no, they can go pay for accommodations .

I don't think we can assume that paying for accommodations was an option. If there was a hotel or frum-friendly air bnb within walking distance of their hosts (in many frum areas, there isn't) they might not have been able to afford it.

And while I don't think OP owed them anything in the first place, once they've been told they can stay in OP's house, and have planned their trip based on knowing that (and might not even have come, if not for having accommodations), and they're already there and it's a few hours until chag, I think it would have been hugely problematic to tell them they can't unplug the cameras and should just go elsewhere.

ora_43

Thu, May 02 2024, 2:04 am

watergirl wrote:

Read the entire thread.

Who is going to be intimate in a room that only has a crib in it?

Who is going to go to see to the baby at night without getting dressed and covering their hair?

Who is going to lift their shirt to nurse the baby?

Who is going to use the second bedroom to get changed, to avoid waking up someone sleeping in the main bedroom?

It's not about whether they were likely to do this or that specific act there. The point is, there was a lot of potential for them to be doing something private in there, for perfectly innocent reasons.

amother

Watermelon

Thu, May 02 2024, 2:10 am

ora_43 wrote:

So “she” can make sure not to feed the baby in front of the camera and get dressed when she enters the room. Why should the one doing a favor be inconvenienced because the free loading guests getting a massive benefit need to be 100% comfortable in a house that is not theirs. It’s entitlement.

amother

Buttercup

Thu, May 02 2024, 3:29 am

amother Watermelon wrote:

Receiving a favor is not a crime. You don't owe anyone any favors, and if you can't give with dignity and care, it's better not to give.

ora_43

Thu, May 02 2024, 4:09 am

amother Watermelon wrote:

1. in what would a host be inconvenienced by not videotaping their guests? It's not like OP was doing it intentionally. She forgot to turn off the cameras.

2. it would be the height of poor manners to invite someone without telling them they'd be constantly on camera, and then tell them to suck it up. That's like inviting someone to stay without mentioning that you don't have furniture, or don't have a working bathroom. An invitation to host someone = a commitment to providing minimum standards.

ora_43

Thu, May 02 2024, 4:18 am

Overall

OP's actions were understandable. Videotaping people without telling them is a pretty big deal, but it wasn't intentional, and it's an easy mistake. Trying to pack up a whole house of kids before Pesach, and that's all you forgot? Good for you, seriously.

If the guests unplugged all the cameras from one central location, they didn't do anything wrong either. They found a camera. They know there are others, but they aren't sure where. They don't know OP. For all they know the husband of the family put up cameras without his wife's knowledge in hopes of secretly catching a female guest undressing on tape. It could be they were acting out of kindness in trying to deal with it discretely.

If the guests went room to room unplugging cameras, that sounds a bit vindictive. I'd be annoyed at them but also worried that they think I was trying to film them on purpose. I'd be in touch via the neighbor to clear the air.

Either way it sounds like an easy fix for next time. When inviting someone: "Just so you know, we have some cameras around the home. We've turned off the ones in the rooms you'll be using, but we ask that you keep the others plugged in, for safety reasons." At that point anyone who takes the invite but unplugs cameras is definitely being a jerk, and shouldn't get a repeat invite.

HonesttoGod

Thu, May 02 2024, 7:40 am

I didn’t read the whole thread but the guests should have 100% plugged everything back in before they left.

Also, my cameras all have a cover and they could have just done that.

But they should have asked/notified the host either way. Common decency.

lamplighter

Thu, May 02 2024, 7:46 am

I dont think you're a creep OP but it feels creepy to the guest when there's cameras on.
You should have told them about them and forgot to.
They unplugged them (either freaked out or because of shabbos) and forgot to plug them back in.
Human error and no I'll intent on both parties. I understand your frustration over the package, that is very upsetting but I think this whole thing has been blown out of proportion. I have heard plenty of horror stories (including my own) of people lending out their house, this is not one of them.
May this be a zechus for your family!