Why does shabbat food have to be traditional ashkenazi food?

B'Syata D'Shmya

Fri, May 10 2024, 2:51 am

amother OP wrote:

I'm a BT who grew up very OOT and didn't grow up with any connection to the traditional ashkenazi food that most of you probably know very well. I knew matzah ball soup and pastrami & rye from a treyf "kosher deli" but had no clue what's a kichel or a kugel or the difference between them.

I find the traditional ashkenazi shabbat food to be bland and boring, and I'd never go out of my way to cook it. I make whatever I want for shabbat and when we have guests, I make whatever I think is popular and that I think will have mass appeal. but you'll never find a kugel or gefilte fish on my table.

I've had discussions with others about this and they think it's important for shabbat food to have traditional ashkenazi food to maintain a link to our heritage. I don't see it that way. I see it that we were stuck in europe as very poor people with limited access to spices and good ingredients and developed a cuisine of mediocre peasant food, and I can embrace my judaism and pass it on to our kids without having to cook and serve that food. what do you think?

Different strokes for different folks.
Shabbos is Shamor and Zachor.
So I guess some people want to maintain the connection with the past and make traditional foods but it isnt mandatory.
We are proud of our heritage, even if you call it "mediocre peasant food". Judaism doesnt depend on it, so your good. You dont have to make matza balls to be Jewish.
Similar to Thanksgiving. I dont like turkey, or cranberry sauce or sweet potatoes and marshmallows. Do I NEED to prepare that to make Thanksgiving meal? Cant I be thankful without the foods the pilgrims ate?
You do you, and enjoy,
Gut Shabbos!

amother

Daffodil

Fri, May 10 2024, 3:05 am

amother Sand wrote:

amother Yolk wrote:
No one eats gefilte fish cuz it’s tradition. It’s because they like it as it’s what they are accustomed to.

We don’t eat gefilta fish because we dislike it, despite it being our “tradition”. Most people that eat gefilta fish like it, but I’ve met many like me.

Of course many people don't eat it because they dislike it, but to say that no one eats it because it's traditional is simply false!

imaima

Fri, May 10 2024, 3:16 am

amother OP wrote:

Very interesting thread and thanks for the many great responses...

I do find it hard to attach too much spiritual meaning to some of the symbolic foods (whether wordplay or visual play). For example, the whole "rainbow shabbat" for Parshas Noah is trendy and popular now. It's probably social media and Instagram that is driving this. Maybe this is a fad, or maybe it sticks -- and maybe our great grandkids will be having rainbow challahs and rainbow salads at their shabbat tables for parahas noah. Does that mean that a rainbow challah represents something particularly spiritual? To me, no. And neither do blintzes on shavuot or stuffed cabbage on simchat torah. They're nice traditions that are good to have, but I don't think they're essential to the meaning of Judaism. If these food traditions are lost in a few generations in favor of some other cute way to serve good food on the holiday -- and our descendants still have a strong connection to yiddishkeit in their own way, I don't think it's the end of the world.

A rainbow is a negative symbol in this context though 🤔

imaima

Fri, May 10 2024, 3:34 am

amother OP wrote:

When I was younger and just started to cook on the regular basis, I had the same questions as you! So I don’t think you are off.
I didn’t get why I shop fancy cheeses and avocados for weekdays and potatoes and onions for shabbos?
Why do I eat like a modern person on weekdays but like a shtetl dweller on the holiest day of the week when I am supposed to prepare „the best“ foods?

This question didn’t disturb me SO MUCH but I did notice the contradiction. Most people mix and match of course, but some people really stick to tradition (only!) so in the end we may sit in a very wealthy house, the table is full of expensive silverware and there is just chrain and beet salad and challah crumbs to eat. The clash between the affluence of the household and simplicity of food on the most important day of the week is jarring.

amother

Steel

Fri, May 10 2024, 4:58 am

We save our nicest and most expensive food for shabbos.
Yes, we like chulent and kugel, also chicken soup. I don't think they are 'peasant foods', they are shabbos foods.
We also have nicely prepared veg - grilled veg plate, fresh checked rather than frozen, fresh dips, challah, all the patchke foods that I wouldn't do for every day. Sometimes I grill chicken, sometimes I roast it, sometimes I do nice meat platters. Our only fixtures are challah, soup in winter (not always chicken) and a meat/chicken on Fri night and chulent/kugel shaboos day. Everything else is flexible.

We eat simple food during the week - meatloaf, cod, leftover shabbos chicken, steamed veg, plain rice, eggs, simple salads etc.

We save our nicer food for shabbos and yomtov. At least 1 yomtov meal we do fancy milchig with a cheese board and lots of well presented foods.

This is how we make shabbos special. Plus sitting together, talkng, relaxing, singing, sometimes dancing with the children. It isn't just the food, it is the experience.

Eat whatever you want on shabbos- but make the meal special and memorable and not just about food.

camp123

Fri, May 10 2024, 5:54 am

Not sure why she people saw OP's post as offensive. I think it's an interesting discussion which is actually the point of this site.
On the one hand I think there's something nice about traditional foods bring eaten for Shabbos and being passed down from generation to generation. On the other hand it's nice to eat what you enjoy.
I do a bit of both, but definitely think this is an interesting debate.
It definitely makes life easier when you have your "Shabbos food" that you cook each week. No thinking about menu's and you tend to get used to it so can do it quicker.
OP don't take offence at people who can't understand your post. They just don't want the food they like to be insulted;)

B'Syata D'Shmya

Fri, May 10 2024, 6:01 am

camp123 wrote:

Tradition is nice cause you grew up with it. My kugel honors Shabbos cause it's Shabbosdik to me. In fact the 3 kugel Shabbos when we take out 3 sifrei Torah elevares my meal. OP explained that its peasant food in her eyes so she wouldn't feel Shabbosdik / honoring Shabbos, serving it. Different strokes for different folks.

Ruchel

Fri, May 10 2024, 7:02 am

amother OP wrote:

I disagree. Some cuisines are just not as good as others. I've traveled a lot and eaten a lot of ethnic food in pre-kosher days. For example, much of Central American food is very mediocre -- Mexican food is great and famous, much of the rest of it is very bland rice and beans. As another example, there's a reason Thai and Vietnamese food are famous and well liked, and Cambodian and Laos food are known to be bland and mediocre cuisines.

I bet those raised with this disagree
It's the taste of their home and heart(h)
Perhaps also rich vs poor

Elfrida

Fri, May 10 2024, 7:27 am

imaima wrote:

Why don't you shop avocado and fancy cheeses for Seudah Shlishit?
Or serve the avocado as part of the salatim course?

imaima

Fri, May 10 2024, 7:30 am

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

It’s peasant food to eat endless variations of potatoes onions chicken and dough.
When there are so many nice and sophisticated ingredients available to us.

imaima

Fri, May 10 2024, 7:33 am

Elfrida wrote:

Why don't you shop avocado and fancy cheeses for Seudah Shlishit?
Or serve the avocado as part of the salatim course?

I do.
It’s not about me.
I personally hardly ever make traditional foods because either time consuming or people don’t eat them or they are unhealthy.
I don’t like to have several dishes with the same ingredient (but that’s my shtick. Othee people can have 3 different tomato salads and it’s fine).

But when it’s the only thing that people serve then it is very surprising.

amother

Mint

Fri, May 10 2024, 7:51 am

If I understood your question correctly, it seemed that you were asking if religiously you were tied to a particular type of cuisine for Shabbos. The answer is, as noted above, no. I am as Ashkenaz as they come (although still hoping to discover a tiny bit of Sephardi) and I do have generational ties to typical Ashkenazi foods. However, I cook and enjoy many types of cuisine. My father's grandmother was a storied, admired cook and a master of making do with very little. She once asked him what she should cook for him when he came to visit. His reply? "Herring and potatoes." She had a good laugh out of that and told him that was what poor people ate when she was growing up. Make your own traditions and your children will have wonderful memories of what you serve. Good Shabbos!

amother

Broom

Fri, May 10 2024, 7:53 am

amother OP wrote:

I get that some people are strict to have fish, but one man we know was basically like "my ancestors ate gefilte fish for generations so I'm gonna have gefilte fish at our table" even though he didnt particularly like it. it's a bit rigid to me.

Where I live many prepare much more of a variety.

Sushi salad, if gefilta spiced up creatively, challah can be flavored, maybe top with zaatar or pumpkin seeds, really anything, doesn't need to be chulent. Any kinds of soups, as one woman wrote so long as it fits halalichik criteria, why not enjoy? But I respect those who maintain strict traditions too. I'd enjoy going to a real heimisha seuda with challah, kugel, traditional Gefilta fish etc : )

B'Syata D'Shmya

Fri, May 10 2024, 7:53 am

imaima wrote:

Then don't go back...

amother

Red

Fri, May 10 2024, 7:58 am

It's funny to say that one nationality's type of food is tasteless or bland. The word taste, itself, implies that it's personal.

You ever heard someone describe someone as, she was a great Hungarian cook? Or, the Hungarian ladies knew how to cook? So yes, there is traditional Ashkenazi cooking that many think of as excellent and delicious.

Another poster said that part of the reason that OP may not think the foods are tasty is because they were originally made with butter or schmaltz, and that is correct.

amother

Antiquewhite

Fri, May 10 2024, 8:12 am

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

Most of the traditional Thanksgiving Foods that Americans today eat are not what the original native Americans and pilgrims ate.

amother

Cornsilk

Fri, May 10 2024, 8:16 am

I live in a very mixed neighborhood. When I go to a simcha or kiddush, the food served always contains a mixture of the traditional and new foods.
If people would not enjoy the traditional foods, the caterers would not serve them at the kiddush.
I have yet to go to a Kiddush where cholent and kugel was not served (alongside the sushi and fancy meat boards. ) And the cholent is often the main attraction.
I sell potato kugels, and most of my customers are not the traditional type. And yet, they appreciate this "peasant food" and cannot go into Shabbos or YT without it.
So I don't think it's only a matter of tradition. I think they actually like these foods.
(Even my cleaning lady likes kugel, and she probably didn’t see this at her mother's table. )