Software engineer | Imamother

amother

Thu, May 16 2024, 6:20 am

How do you become a software engineer. I saw on other post someone making 330k. I want that and I’m willing to put in the effort. Can I make this if I live in Lakewood and how many years did you need to work to build yourself up to this number. Also how long is schooling. And can I go it if I’m 40

amother

Daylily

Thu, May 16 2024, 8:02 am

Probably would take you around 15 years to get there. 150 is much more typical for a senior developer.
You need to be motivated, a good self learner, and put in the years in order to gain experience.
Then you need to find a nitch or a company that will pay you that much Smile

amother

Apple

Thu, May 16 2024, 8:06 am

It starts at 100 in the frum world. It’s hard to get into the field now it’s very oversaturated and truthfully they look for young people for entry level. 350 is either level 5 and up at a huge tech company or a high up manager at a frum place. Most people don’t get there.

amother

Thu, May 16 2024, 8:12 am

Shucks so I guess I missed the boat on this one. I know deep inside that I can earn that much I just can’t figure out how. Right now I earn more than half of that at a job I crawled my way up the ladder but I’m at the salary limit now. Would love to pivot and earn in the threes

amother

Floralwhite

Thu, May 16 2024, 8:22 am

Someone who makes that kind of money is usually working on trading systems (investment banks, hedge funds) and doing really complicated, cutting edge work. It’s not average.

amother

Ghostwhite

Thu, May 16 2024, 8:47 am

It's a fairly typical FAANG salary, you can do better in trading. But the market isn't great now.

amother

Apple

Thu, May 16 2024, 8:48 am

amother Ghostwhite wrote:

It's a fairly typical FAANG salary, you can do better in trading. But the market isn't great now.

It’s not typical under level 5 and it takes time to move up to that level. And not everyone moves up very easily.

amother

Ghostwhite

Thu, May 16 2024, 8:49 am

She has 10 years experience! By then she should be up to level 5 at least

amother

Apple

Thu, May 16 2024, 8:51 am

amother Ghostwhite wrote:

She has 10 years experience! By then she should be up to level 5 at least

Not in this field. Her experience in another field doesn’t count. She would start with entry level in software development.

amother

Ghostwhite

Thu, May 16 2024, 8:51 am

OP, if you want to go into software engineering in a big company, you have to understand the fundamentals - this is Harvard's intro to CS that you can take online https://pll.harvard.edu/course.....lta=0

If you would want to work in a frum company, there are some quick courses that cover the basics.

amother

Ghostwhite

Thu, May 16 2024, 8:55 am

amother Apple wrote:

Not in this field. Her experience in another field doesn’t count. She would start with entry level in software development.

Yes, but the poster she was referring to had 10 years experience in software engineering, so it is not so hard to imagine she got a level 5 job.

Obviously OP would start at the bottom (which is pretty high in FAANG - I see close to 200K at levels.fyi, but unlikely to get into such a job with the market the way it is.

amother

White

Thu, May 16 2024, 10:11 am

I work as a developer for the government for over 20 years and make just under $130k. But the job flexibility and benefits are great. The starting salary is much lower and it takes time to make this much.

amother

Scarlet

Thu, May 16 2024, 8:13 pm

I'm the amother from the other thread. I have a computer science Bachelor's degree and work in Fintech. It's not FAANG, but the compensation is high enough and the work-life balance very flexible for me to remain happy where I am b'H.

It's definitely very achievable for the right people with the right skillset. The market is oversaturated right now with entry level, because a lot of people got the memo that this a lucrative field to be in, and a lot of courses/certifications cropped up accordingly, with everyone trying to get a slice of the pie.

However, in order to excel in this field, you need to be very good at what you do. You need to be able to fully immerse yourself, as not just as a developer who knows how to write code to implement some functionality. You need to apply yourself to the business domain of whatever space you're in, and fully understand what the business problems are and how the business runs. You need to be able to problem solve effectively. Most of the time people will ask for what they *think* they need, not what they actually need. You need to know how to decipher what's being asked, apply that to the business domain, and ask lots of detail-oriented questions in return to figure what's really needed. You need to know how to communicate uncertainty and how to analyze trade-offs between different solutions, and how to influence decisions that are technically sound for the long term vs short term.

All that to say, that it's not just the ability to write code that's required to do well in the field. You absolutely need to know how to write high-quality, maintainable, performant code to build software. And importantly, you need to have a strong attention to detail and an ability to break large problems into smaller chunks that you can solve for incrementally. And communicate - you need to know how to communicate all this to non-technical people around you, to your customers, clients, stakeholders, teammates, leadership, etc.

Some of what I'm describing you can learn in school, as part of a computer science degree, or even as part of a coding bootcamp. However, there is a big gap in the current market where many many people know how to write code, yes, but lack the rest of the profile required to succeed. In my current experience, there is still very much a demand for the real deal, vs a demand for generic 'coders'.

So if you feel like this overall profile is a good fit yourself, I can't encourage you enough to take the leap and go for it. It is hard to get your foot in the door nowadays with the entry level saturation, but if you can showcase your differentiators from the standard entry-level applicant, there is so much potential.

amother

Fri, May 17 2024, 8:38 am

Thank you so much for your thoughtful and clear response. I am 40 and I am an excellent listener problem solver and communicator. I happen to have masters degree in Education . Which boot camp or course would you recommend. I can’t quit my job as we rely on my income so school would need to be done on the side and part time. Honestly if I can make 250k within next five years I’d be beyond thrilled.

What would you say is my next step.

amother

Gardenia

Fri, May 17 2024, 9:54 am

My husband works in this field, also earning nicely. He says the #1 factor is working for the right companies. So, if you want to make a high income, look at levels.fyi to see what the companies pay and apply there. Referrals can help.
Their interview processes are usually more difficult, with coding challenges and system design questions. Especially for higher levels.
Remote jobs exist, but they are extremely difficult to get these days. Assuming you're in the NY area, we're talking commuting to Manhattan and working 40 hours a week.

Hatzlacha!

amother

Caramel

Fri, May 17 2024, 11:00 am

amother Ghostwhite wrote:

Thanks for this link.
Do you think a very tech savvy teen could complete this course? He already has python experience.

amother

Scarlet

Tue, Jun 04 2024, 1:16 am

amother OP wrote:

If you're looking for 250k, you need to be comfortable with working in Corporate America. It's unlikely the frum economy will offer comparable compensation. And if you're looking in corporate, most places will require a degree in computer science, or computer science-adjacent field. There are always exceptions - but these are exceptions. The good news is that most places don't really care where you got the degree from, it's just a qualification to have in place. Might be worth reaching out to TTI or some of the similar accelerated tracks out there, and seeing what the computer science (and related) options are.

You won't necessarily learn all the hands-on skills you need as part of the degree program, but if you are consistently motivated, there are a ton of side projects out there you can take on yourself to supplement your learnings to make yourself as marketable as possible once you're done.

I wouldn't expect your first job to reach 250, but if you are focused and keep pushing and gain solid experience (even if it's not the most desirable job initially), in the longer run you should be well positioned for growth.

amother

Scarlet

Tue, Jun 04 2024, 1:19 am

amother Gardenia wrote:

Agree that the number one factor is the right companies. However, you can be very strategic about this. You don't have to focus on the right companies initially. Focus on developing your skills and gaining good experience. Your first job doesn't have to be at the best company for the best salary. But once you have some experience and a proven track record, you are much more marketable and are much better positioned to make connections, gain referrals, and get your foot into the door more successfully.

Also, in my experience, most jobs are hybrid these days in this field. So you'd be commuting 2-3 days a week, not 5. And there are still a fair amount of remote offerings, but sometimes that does come along with a adjusted salary band to reflect that.

amother

Scarlet

Tue, Jun 04 2024, 1:24 am

amother Caramel wrote:

Thanks for this link.
Do you think a very tech savvy teen could complete this course? He already has python experience.

There's no harm in trying! And I would encourage him to try and see if this is something he finds enjoyable and rewarding. It's certainly doable if he's motivated and disciplined enough to see it through.

Tech savvy is a broad term, and can mean many different things. This course focuses more on the fundamentals of computer science, which is not really tech focused, as it is more focused on abstractions and problem solving. But having experience in python will potentially make some of it more relatable, so it can only be a benefit.

amother

Jade

Tue, Jun 04 2024, 1:57 am

OP I don't want to dissuade you but it's very hard to get your first job because nobody wants to higher a programmer without experience and often it's 2-5 years experience. Your best bet is finding a course that will give you a 3 month internship when you're done.