miracles | Imamother

Mandy

Tue, Jan 10 2006, 7:32 am

I just have a quick question. I'm sure the answer is obvious, I just forgot it. What is the point of miracles ? Why did Hashem have to do krias yam suf, 10 makkos, man, etc. ? Why wasn't it all natural ? We don't prove anything from a nes anyway, like a novi sheker remains a novi sheker regardless of the nissim that he may perform, so what is the point of nissim ? -Thanks

Motek

Tue, Jan 10 2006, 7:37 am

check out the parshiyos with those miracles and you'll see the answer time and again

one ex. 7:4,5 "and Egypt will know that I am G-d when I stretch forth My hand over Egypt and I bring the children of Israel out from among them"

Mandy

Tue, Jan 10 2006, 7:41 am

right, so you are saying that everyone should know the greatness of Hashem or that the Jewish people are being taken out by Hashem, etc. But a novi sheker's nissim do not show anything about Hashem supporting him etc. So I am not clear.

Motek

Tue, Jan 10 2006, 7:49 am

Mandy wrote:

right, so you are saying that everyone should know the greatness of Hashem or that the Jewish people are being taken out by Hashem, etc.

actually, the pasuk is saying and I'm just quoting it

Quote:

But a novi sheker's nissim do not show anything about Hashem supporting him etc. So I am not clear.

a navi sheker's nissim don't show anything about his being navi because the things he says to do go counter to the Torah, that's what gives him away

so we are enjoined not to believe him even if he does miracles, because he's no good, in other words, the fact that he can do some tricks shouldn't convince us to follow him if he what he says goes counter to Torah

shanie5

Tue, Jan 10 2006, 8:51 am

rain is a miracle. it just happens so often for most of us that we dont see the miracle anymore. same with our health, the trees growing etc.
if it rains in the dessert its considered a miracle- because u dont see it happening.
if a very sick person is healed unexpectedly we see that as a miracle-cuz its not usual.
so miracles are really a way of life-we just have to open our eyes and see them.

Mandy

Tue, Jan 10 2006, 10:13 am

Quote:

Okay, so just to clarify, what do miracles add if the person is a novi emes ?

Motek

Tue, Jan 10 2006, 11:35 am

Quote:

what do miracles add if the person is a novi emes ?

a Navi might never do a miracle! nevuah does not go hand-in-hand with miracles

see Rambam, his hakdama to Mishnayos for a lengthy treatise on this subject (which he says many people get wrong!)