Photocopying portraits/copying CD's and recipes

besimcha

Mon, Nov 20 2006, 3:57 pm

Don't rely on me, but I have heard from someone who seemed choshuv that if you were not going to buy it anyway, you can copy the song/recipe/whatever because you are not causing a loss to anybody. It would be different if you would buy the book for the recipe if someone else won't give it to you.

Mevater

Mon, Nov 20 2006, 3:59 pm

Even the public libraries allow you to make copies of their books. It can't be a problem. I copy recipes fron library cookbooks all the time. What's the difference if it's a library book or friend's? I hope I haven't been stealing.

Ribbie Danzinger

Mon, Nov 20 2006, 3:59 pm

If you copied the recipe by typing it straight into the computer or by hand, I don't think that there is anything legal that can be held against you. People are allowed to copy things from books for personal use (like quoting it in a school assignment) so why should this be any different? You are not using it commercially and it actually is the best advertisement that the book could get. If you use a recipe and tell people who comment on it that it is from that book maybe they will buy it themselves.

If you are still worried, you could ask the copyright holders for permission to copy the recipe.

chocolate moose

Mon, Nov 20 2006, 4:02 pm

I am on a few recipe boards and that's the legal rule; you can't just change a few ingredients around and post a professional recipe.

three threads on this topic were merged

realeez

Mon, Nov 20 2006, 7:41 pm

I was told by a photographer at Sears that after a year or so they do not keep copies of the pictures and I should go to a Kodak machine if I want copies of old pictures.

In terms of cookbooks, I have seen on numerous occasions recipes from one copyrighted cookbook word for word in another copyrighted cookbook. I dont get it!

cassandra

Mon, Nov 20 2006, 7:52 pm

Recipes are not copyrighted since this would be impossible to enforce. What CAN be copyrighted is the wording of a particular recipe. It is therefore not illegal to copy recipes, give them over to friends, online, etc. It is also not illegal to take a recipe, change some things around, and publish it as your own (it just isn't so nice.) What IS illegal is to take a published recipe verbatim and pass it off as your own.

amother

Thu, Dec 20 2007, 11:48 am

I used to be quite guilty of this myself in the past. The way I stopped, was that I buy more cds as they come out, so that I don't run into the yetzer hora of getting them from my family, friends etc. and copying. I figure, rather spend the money now and get rid of the yetzer hora than chas v'shalom having to pay it back after 120.

Now what I really want to know is if I get any blame for when I lend out my large collection of cds to others? Like, someone I know just got an ipod and called me up to borrow my whole collection to download. He told me "I wouldn't buy it on my own." Which is a common rationalization which I have read is not valid. It was a relative so I really didn't want to ruin my relationship with him and give him a whole lecture. But did I do anything wrong?

What are your views on this matter, ladies?

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amother

Thu, Dec 20 2007, 12:36 pm

One of dh's friends had hundreds of audio lectures on CD and offered them to DH to download. So dh went to our rabbi and he actually said it was fine, even though dh told him he would have been willing to pay for the ones he wanted (there were a ton on there he wasn't interested in). I don't know how this would apply to thers, this was obviously a specific situation and it's possible that the rabbi allowed it because it was for learning purposes? I'm not sure why

But in your case, aside from taking possible revenue from the artist/company (even though he said he would never buy it, then why does he want it int he first place? ) it's also not fair to you since you have spent a significant amount of money on the CDs, why should your friend get them for free?

Without giving them a lecture you can just say, I spent a lot of money on my collection and I am not comfortable loaning it out to others.

amother

Thu, Dec 20 2007, 12:44 pm

It specifically says on each cd that copying them is illegal and assur according to both jewish and secular law.

It's my relative and they do for me and iy''h they will - I had to lend it- one of "those obligations" - I couldnt get out of it. But did I get an aveira for lending it???

I hate when people say "I wouldnt spend the money on it anyway so its not stealing" The fact is - you are getting them for free when you could have bought them.

How about if I would steal your car and say "well I wouldnt have bought a new car anyway." I honestly don't see the difference.

momluv

Thu, Dec 20 2007, 12:57 pm

it is stealing to copy a cd. how does the music world make parnassa if e/o does the copying cd's. there really are c-ds I find that I wouldn't buy but I happen to like 1-2 specific songs. that I feel isn't a problem to copy yet I'm going to ask a sheila regarding this so as not to transgress an aveira. I think one must ask a sheila before copying anything. when I was younger I did once copy a certain tape. my father told me I wasn't allowed to since it was considered stealing. I took the tape and dumped it. no rationalities. ask sheilos, it's worth it. why be oiver an aveirah when you can avoid it?

Mrs. XYZ

Thu, Dec 20 2007, 1:00 pm

Strictly al pi halacha- it is NOT ossur. (That is if you're doing it for personal use, not to reproduce and resell and make money off it)

Even if it says איסור השגת גבול , it means nothing. You are not signing any contract when buying it, and once you bought, its yours to do what you wish with it.
Now if we're talking about mentchlichkeit, thats a different story.

baba

Thu, Dec 20 2007, 1:04 pm

yentagolda wrote:

there really are c-ds I find that I wouldn't buy but I happen to like 1-2 specific songs. that I feel isn't a problem to copy yet

Our rav agrees with you on that one. He says that if you only want a few songs it's ok, but if you want the whole cd you should buy. He compared it to a book. If you want a few pages you copy them, but you dont copy a whole book.

Also, it's halachically not so clear. I think it was the rav of kiryat arba that said it's ok, comparing it to a certain gemarra (not sure which, would have to ask dh if he remembers) having to do with losing something in a market place. The owner has no claim cause it's in such a public place (really not clear on the details, sorry). But the point was that the owners can scream as much as they want that it's theirs, the reality is that there is internet out there where you can get hold of anything and there's no stopping it so the owners don't really have a say.

rosehill

Thu, Dec 20 2007, 1:11 pm

Mrs. XYZ wrote:

I don't believe it's quite that clear cut (though I agree it's not mentchlach, at best).

IIRC, you can copy it from, say, a CD to your own I-pod so you don't have to shlep a CD around, or you can copy a CD so that you have one in the car and one in the house. But I don't believe you can make a copy for a friend.

When you say "it's yours to do what you wish with it", I don't believe that's so simple either. In terms of the physical CD, you can listen to it, you can give it to a friend, you can use it as a coaster and so on. But you haven't bought the rights to the music itself to either make money off, or to deny the copyrigth holder his income.

louche

Thu, Dec 20 2007, 1:50 pm

rosehill wrote:

IIRC, you can copy it from, say, a CD to your own I-pod so you don't have to shlep a CD around, or you can copy a CD so that you have one in the car and one in the house. But I don't believe you can make a copy for a friend.

.

You are correct in all of the above.