Son had a fight in school

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nchr

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 3:19 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

Good for you.

If an older child smacked my three year old, I don’t want to say what I’d do. But I promise you it wouldn’t involve a notebook and pen.

I know that you think your approach is superior, but all youre teaching your child is that people can hit him and get away with it.

So different strokes for different folks and no superiority here lol everyone just tries to do what's best for them. I personally cannot see how hitting can ever be okay but thay doesn't mean if someone else thinks so they are inferior in my eyes chv. They just have a different opinion and were all equal. I just hope OP had an okay time at her child's school today and that the bullying will be properly addressed and stopped.

amother

Papaya

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 3:22 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

And what about for the kids it doesn’t work for?

According to some on this thread, “violence is never the answer”

But they are wrong. Sometimes a bully needs a good punch in the face.
(Not that my son ever did that. He is an angel who wouldn’t hurt a fly. I wish he did though. He is much bigger then the bullies and could have taught them a lesson.)

I think if a boy is already willing to punch the bully in the face, he's more likely than boys like your son to have success with other anti bullying techniques. I don't have any answers for a boy who's tried everything he can within his abilities. It's shfichas damim when a school allows it to continue.

amother

Smokey

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 3:23 pm

Nchr
You keep repeating the same thing. Please understand that while you have valid points, in real life they simply do not work because of so many different things such as parents who don’t think their bully child is wrong. Money. Power. Etc. you even state that your child is being bullied and when you approached the mom & she did not think her son was at fault.
Many years ago we had a couple of boys who came with their bikes around the corner to our block and tortured everyone regardless of gender or age.(hitting,riding into them,taking away jumpropes and bikes, you get the idea) When one of the fathers tried to speak to them nicely their answer was my father says you can’t do anything to me. Mind you all he did was speak nicely.
Finally one father went over to those boys’ father and said if you don’t do something about your kids behavior I will call the police That put a stop to it.
And btw this father was the most mild man on our block but he had had enough

Reality

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 3:35 pm

amother wrote:

Not true at all!! Even a person with the sweetest nature has a breaking point!

Reality

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 3:38 pm

OP, does the school know about the prior bullying incidents? Did you complain and or document it? That would really help your son's case.

It is terrible that so many boys schools blame the victim of bullying!! I have seen it first hand in a few different yeshivas.

Sebastian

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 3:41 pm

OP and and mommy3b2c, there are anti bullying laws in many states. I would tell the school if they don't deal with it, you will get the authorities involved. Document everything.

amother

Papaya

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 3:42 pm

Reality wrote:

Not true at all!! Even a person with the sweetest nature has a breaking point!

True. However, all I have to go by right now is what op writes. She says the bullying began, they contacted the school, the school didn't handle it well enough at all, her husband told her son to punch the bully in the face, and then he did. She doesn't mention empowering her son in other ways, and I'm encouraging her to pursue that before accepting that punching is the only thing that will work

mommy3b2c

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 4:14 pm

Sebastian wrote:

OP and and mommy3b2c, there are anti bullying laws in many states. I would tell the school if they don't deal with it, you will get the authorities involved. Document everything.

Bh, both of my sons are not being bullied anymore. The school was cooperative. But even so, it took way to long.

Amalia

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 4:15 pm

Dear OP,

If you don’t mind, can you please update us on how the meeting with the school went?

Hoping for only good news.

groisamomma

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 6:22 pm

mommy3b2c, when a student of mine is bullied, and the school and guidance counselor are unsuccessful in stopping it, I tell him/her the story of my son and then leave it up to them. When he was around 9, he moved up a class and a particular boy constantly poked fun of him. The kid was half ds's size but his mouth was twice ds's. Dh told ds what to answer until one night at supper I told ds that if the kid sticks his foot out again ds should stomp on it. Hard. Dh was horrified. Well guess what? It worked. The kid backed off and they were buddies after that.

Schools, including public schools, are full of baloney. Anti-bullying programs are lip service, if you ask me. Just so we can check off the box. If I know a student of mine is being bullied I document every.single.incident. and every interaction with guidance, admin, and the parents. Inevitably, when the victim lashes out, I'm their biggest advocate. Dear me if a student bullies in my classroom, the kid never lives it down. School should be a safe place for kids; they spend most of their waking hours there! How can adults know about it and not do something? I know I can't.

Of course, bullies need help, victims should be taught skills, yadda yadda yadda. As much as it shames me to say it, I was a bully in school and the only language I understood was this one. The mother of a girl I bullied once came up behind me and grabbed hold of my ponytail so hard it literally lifted me off the ground. She gave me an earful, twisting all the while, and wouldn't let go until I swore never to do it again. I never did bully her kid after that.

mommy3b2c

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 6:28 pm

groisamomma wrote:

Thank you for this post. I feel like so many people just don’t get it. Sometimes bullies need to be put in their places. And while I wouldn’t do what that mother did, I can’t blame her. She was protecting her child, as she should.

amother

Goldenrod

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 6:35 pm

I'm following this thread as my 5 year old is being targeted by a classmate and is hit and kicked every day. I spoke to the school several times and "they are working on it." It's completely unacceptable that this has been going on for 3 months. I don't know how to address it at this point and may just encourage him to hit back...

Amalia

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 6:45 pm

Dear groisamoma,

You are an amazing teacher!

Thank you for the much-needed dose of reason and common sense, rooted in reality.

cnc

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 6:51 pm

Great posts mommy3b2c and groisamomma.
Agree with every word.

Amalia

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 6:55 pm

nchr wrote:

1. I would sit down with the bully's parents, although I know that this can often result in severe punishment of the bully because you never know what he is going through that is making him behave so poorly, abhorrently and out of control.

2. I would sit down with the school to mandate the bullying be address. Either via suspension, receiving treatment, developing some other type of plan, etc. I'd pledge dinner money if our school was so absent minded that they otherwise won't deal with a MAJOR issue (I.e. Bullying). It's hard to believe that a child who is physically hitting another (causing black eyes, etc.) on a regular basis has not yet been suspended or expelled and I'm so sorry if your child is dealing with that.

3. I would speak to a professional about tools I can give my child to not be bullied or to not take it to heart (ignoring, joking, telling a teacher, getting other kids involved, giving out gifts and snacks even to the bully, get my child enrolled in an after school actively like karate which shuns the use of violence but can make him feel empowered)

4. I'd consider changing schools, even if it meant dealing with an array of other issues (I.e. hashkafic ones, community pressures, etc. because your child comes before the community).

5. Some people would go to bais din and follow up with filing a law suit or at least a cease and desist, but I know myself too well and I know that wouldn't be something I'd consider, but it is a valid route.

I do have a neighbor whose son punches my three year old every time he sees him. He calls him a non Jew (g-word) and spits at him because my husband and I have smart phones. My child does not even know what a smart phone is. I would be very disappointed if my child hit him back. I've spoken to the mother and she thinks it is fine because her child only behaves that way when provoked and that smart phones are bad, but thankfully these children are not in school together so we can avoid it. I think the child has an undiagnosed condition or something as well because he is very hyper and does not behave age appropriately although academically he is fine (as per his mother's input) and I'd expect his school to do something if he was treating other children this way.

Dear nchr,

Your poor kid.

Does your husband know that your three-year old gets punched, spat on, and called “[non jew]”? Is he your oldest?

amother

Smokey

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 7:04 pm

Dear groismamma
Thank you This is exactly what we are all trying to say. Your personal experience is the clincher.

groisamomma

Sun, Jan 13 2019, 8:22 pm

One student to another: You're ugly
Me: You need a mirror

I've never had a parent complain that I bullied their kid back. Those parents know darn well their kids need to be put in place. Once only, but it works.

I stand behind OP completely. Mothers are their children's biggest advocate. FWIW it helps to get on the school bus and make a little bully aware that you're on top of the situation. Depending on the age of the child (K-2 for sure) that should help.

imasoftov

Mon, Jan 14 2019, 2:59 am

My take, too many posts to quote so I'm not going to try

1) Bullying is bad, verbal or physical.
1a) I'm not going to compete in the misery olympics and come up with a list of rules for when one is worse, just see #1
2) Punching is also bad
2a) Dad needs to be the one to go to talk to the school since he's the one who encouraged it, and he needs to not do that any more. Maybe if he takes the blame for himself (which he deserves) it will help the child. If he gets suspended too don't take it to the Supreme Court.
2b) In response to the idea that a single punch is not so bad because a childhood of verbal abuse (may) hurt more, step closer to me for an experiment (this is a thought experiment only).
2c) violence is apprporiate to stop other violence. Even if the original attack was physical, hitting back is not
3) Middle fingers when driving are sometimes appropriate but keep both hands on the wheel when moving. I tell people that in NYC we learned one more hand signal than people who learned in other places.

4) Finally, a thought about bullying and schools (or any other sources of authority, sure glad I'm not one of them at home, oh wait ...), sure those in chrage should do their best to prevent it. But I'm not sure how to do that without just giving the bullies something for them to (wrongly) feel to be a real greivance against their victim. Well maybe siblings do realize they have to eventually sort of get along but schoolmates may think they can bully a kid into switching schools or it's a case of empathy diminishing by distance.

crust

Mon, Jan 14 2019, 3:53 am

Nchr, I wonder if your child, specifically a boy above the age of 6 has ever been bullied ongoingly in a school setting?

I'm not saying we shouldn't give our kids better coping tools. Of course we should.

I just wonder if you've experienced this or you are writing theory.

amother

Ivory

Mon, Jan 14 2019, 3:56 am

Amalia wrote:

Dear OP,

If you don’t mind, can you please update us on how the meeting with the school went?

Hoping for only good news.

There was no meeting yet. My husband returned the menahels call and left a mssg. For the record, a friend of mine forwarded me a CD of this menahel at a parlor meeting a few years ago. He was taking questions from the crowd. A question was posed about what to do about bullying. He went thru a few ideas about contacting the rebbe and principal but he then says something along the lines of, "if the bullying is persistent, and you've already tried various methods to resolve it without success, I shouldn't admit this publicly but a good zetts often is the solution".
Those are his words. I will say this is an extremely well known menahel in New York. We will obviously use this information in our conversation with him.

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