How do you react when pple comment on # of kids?

the world's best mom

Fri, Jan 15 2010, 9:19 am

energy11 wrote:

Thank you OP for your last post...

A breath of fresh air after all these obnoxious negative crtitics.

And for the few others who said my posts were nasty, please learn your lesson:

Don't you ever again, condemn mothers for having given life to their children!

You will get the worst out of them and it will be well-deserved!

Oh, so now you are playing G-d. You know exactly what we deserve for having an opinion the is not yours, and you will dish it out to us in the form of nasty comments. And then you call us obnoxious negative critics.

I have never seen a Halacha stating that the whole world must agree with energy11 on everything or else you will be desrving of all kinds of horrible accusations. Do you have a source for that?

energy11

Fri, Jan 15 2010, 10:31 am

[quote=

Oh, so now you are playing G-d. You know exactly what we deserve for having an opinion the is not yours, and you will dish it out to us in the form of nasty comments. And then you call us obnoxious negative critics.

I have never seen a Halacha stating that the whole world must agree with energy11 on everything or else you will be desrving of all kinds of horrible accusations. Do you have a source for that?[/quote]

I don't have the pretention of playing G-d, just like I don't have the pretention to call myself myself as the world's best mom.

You are the ones playing G-d, placing a judgement and criticizing us for giving life to so many children. Who ultimately gave the lives you are criticising? Hashem!
So, you are the ones playing G-d, not me!!
What I am saying, since you have such a hard time understanding my position is that MY STRONG REACTION (that you call nasty) is directly caused by your hurtful generalizations and negative comments about large families, and if you attack us mothers, about our multiple children, you get the worst reactions out of us.
NOW, do you understand?

(Maybe it is a communication problem, since I am not American, my mother-tong is French, so forgive my poor English)

the world's best mom

Fri, Jan 15 2010, 11:07 am

energy11 wrote:

I don't have the pretention of playing G-d, just like I don't have the pretention to call myself myself as the world's best mom.

You are the ones playing G-d, placing a judgement and criticizing us for giving life to so many children. Who ultimately gave the lives you are criticising? Hashem!
So, you are the ones playing G-d, not me!!
What I am saying, since you have such a hard time understanding my position is that MY STRONG REACTION (that you call nasty) is directly caused by your hurtful generalizations and negative comments about large families, and if you attack us mothers, about our multiple children, you get the worst reactions out of us.
NOW, do you understand?

(Maybe it is a communication problem, since I am not American, my mother-tong is French, so forgive my poor English)[/quote]
Whoa! I am playing G-d because I have an opinion? Or was it because my screen name is as different from yours as my opinion is?

I don't believe I ever said anything judgemental here. Maybe you are confusing me with someone else. All I said was there are times when, if a mother feels she doesn't have enough time to give her children proper chinuch, she could benefit from a break. It has nothing to do with how many kids a mother has, it has to do with how well she can manage another one without sacrificing the Chinuch of the children she already has. That is my opinion and I am entitled to it.

The one person who was judgemental here (besides for you) has apologized. You choose to keep the rude, hurtful comments coming, and saying we deserve it. That's very sweet of you.

amother

Fri, Jan 15 2010, 11:09 am

Hmm.. What about placing a judgement on women that don't have as many children? Comments like, "you have so much time,"(you don't know that I don't have a minute to breath and I don't have to tell you why.) "What do you do all day?" You ONLY have x amount?" Making you feel like you are not good enough. Some of you even seem like you are drowning and are jealous. I want to know jealous of what? I don't need to hear you krechtzing. Ok enough of my vent.

ilovedacb

Fri, Jan 15 2010, 12:25 pm

energy11 wrote:

I read this on my blackberry (which btw helps manage my large families lives) and responded on the blackberry. I was still thinking about when I got home and started cooking so sat down to see if my blackberry post actually posted and it didn't.

Energy, ummm am I reading this correctly? Did you just curse anyone who disagrees with your opinions? I don't think anyone is condemning mothers for having given life to their children. I think everyone on this thread has a different opinion as to how many they themselves want to have, how much space between them, and how they raise them. I would even go as far to say that I am pretty sure that everyone on this thread would agree that every child no matter how or when them come into the world is a true Bracha. But to say that anyone who disagrees with your opinion "will get the worst out of them and it will be well-deserved". Are you really saying that you hope those that disagree will have mean, nasty children? Are you even suggesting that children are brought into this world to punish their parents????? COME ON EVERYONE GET A GRIP!

chaylizi

Fri, Jan 15 2010, 1:29 pm

amother wrote:

There was a thread about this earlier in the week. I don't remember what it was called & it disappeared. Maybe another poster will remember it. It was about obnoxious people who look at your stomach before your face & make comments about non existent BC usage. Really charming stuff.

life'sgreat

Fri, Jan 15 2010, 2:45 pm

energy11 wrote:

You are not exactly right here...
There is a difference between our freedom of choice and the ultimate results.

Milechatchila, we have to do our active Hishtadlus for bringing children to the world, even if it takes great efforts, such as getting married,Tefilos, painful fertility treatments etc...
But,
Bede'avad, the end result is in Hashem's hand!

There is an aimportant nuance here.

Your statement could be (wrongly) understood as sit back and don't worry about it, because anyways, it is in Hashem's hands, not yours.

What the?! Since when is one mechuyav to do fertility treatments?

energy11 wrote:

Pot, meet kettle. If there was anyone that is obnoxious and negative, you need to look in the mirror.

What will be well deserved?

energy11 wrote:

You are being unnecessarily rude in targeting World's Best Mom.

Placing judgement is far from playing G-d. Even if you don't like that. I don't think anyone is placing judgement. They are simply stating their personal opinions, just as you are.

Speak for yourself about the worst reactions out of us. It's not us. It's you. No one else had such a negative, obnoxious reaction as you did.

Language barrier is not an excuse for what you write/wrote.

Last edited by life'sgreat on Sat, Jan 16 2010, 10:38 pm; edited 1 time in total

ora_43

Sat, Jan 16 2010, 1:40 pm

I can see why energy11 is upset, I think there's too much focus on her anger and not on what was said to trigger it.

chayamommy didn't just say that some families can't handle many kids. She implied that the "vast majority" can't. (and that her perspective is unique because she's "worldly" and that many of us are "off the deep end")

the world's best mom didn't just say that some families with kids spaced closely together should space them farther apart. She said that most such families would be better off taking "a break for a couple of years."

Posters who are defending those comments and/or attacking energy11 - how would you feel if similar comments were made about people who do use birth control to space their children a couple of years apart, or who don't have large families?

If I were to say "the vast majority of women who use birth control could really handle more kids if they tried" or "most families that space their kids at least two years apart would benefit from having them closer in age" - wouldn't you (rightly) think that it's a big chutzpa for me to make such presumptuous statements about other families? Or to assume that I know better than another women when she should use BC or for how long, or what she can and can't handle?

I have a feeling that if I really were to say "most women who use BC to space their kids don't really need it," the responses I get would make what energy11 has said look downright tame.

ora_43

Sat, Jan 16 2010, 1:45 pm

and just to add, I'm not suggesting that we be deliberately naive... of course there are people who have trouble managing their kids and maybe should use (/should have used) BC (and there are probably also people who could have handled more kids than they decided to have). But to start saying that "most" people should be doing things differently (or to start such a discussion at all on a thread about judgment of large families...) is unnecessary and rude.

the world's best mom

Sat, Jan 16 2010, 8:15 pm

If you want to say that bc is way overused, go ahead and say it. I won't curse you or your kids, I won't even be insulted. I might disagree with you though. Then again, I might not. You are welcome to start a new thread stating your opinions.

I made it clear that I do not judge specific big families but based on my own experiences, I see where a break could be very helpful. I also said I don't think these families are ruining their children, just that they would be able to give their kids more attention if they space them apart more. That is certainly not a reason to curse me that my children should give me grief.

Hodu Lashem

Sat, Jan 16 2010, 10:36 pm

energy11 wrote:

the world's best mom wrote:

That is certainly not a reason to curse me that my children should give me grief.

I think you and ilovedacb are misinterpreting Energy's above post. I think the "them" she was referring to is the "mothers [who have] given life to their children". Meaning if you condemn mothers for giving life to thier children, then "you will get the worst out of [those mothers] and it will be well-deserved!" She was defending why she was so upset.
That is how I understood it and I couldn't understand why anyone would think she was cursing others with regards to their children.

I am not the author of the post, but I really think that is what she meant.

life'sgreat

Sat, Jan 16 2010, 10:43 pm

ora_43 wrote:

I can answer the above honestly because I'm not from the 'go on BC' camp at all. I just think that her attitude is naive, very very unrealistic and simply defensive instead of the reality.

FTR, over shabbos I was thinking about this and was going to come and post about chayamommy's comments about the wild kids etc... Somehow that got lost in the shuffle of the rest of the posts.

I think that's wrong simply because I don't see milder kids from those who are only children, nor from those who have kids spaced very well apart. You can find wild kids everywhere, just as you can find sweet mild mannered kids everywhere. It's more about chinuch than it is about family size.

Mini Cookie

Sun, Jan 17 2010, 12:19 am

The number of children has nothing to do with how they're raised. Raising a big family is definitely a challenge (& real fun too!!!! LOL

) but I don't see any connection between that & discipline. It depends on siyata dishmaya & the amount of time the parents invest in their children's chinuch.

Now, back to the original topic, here's a real senseless comment I heard recently...said to a woman that just had her 3rd baby. "hmmmm...so this is your 3rd? so you must be MY age, like 25-26" Really?! Do children grow in like teeth or are they reached like milestones?! Scratching Head

I also love the way ppl try to make their "calculations" by asking stupid questions "how old's your baby?" "are you still nursing?"

amother

Sun, Jan 17 2010, 1:01 am

life'sgreat wrote:

Let's turn it around. It bugs me when people within the frum communities feel the need to comment on the fact that I only have one (living) child who's not a toddler any longer. What business of their's is it if I was/am on BC, chose to have only one, or am dealing with infertility? And let's not forget the calculations of how long are you married? And he's how old? Oh, so that means you had him after X years.... [watches the gears in their brain turn]

And telling my son that for his birthday his mother should buy him a sibling is really overstepping a boundary.

how about this one?

I have x amount of kids, relatively small amount of kids for my kids ages. I was at MIL's house and her friend was over, she was coming from visiting her daughter in lkwd so I asked how many kids she had living in lkwd. she proceeded to tell me only one, she has only one child and then asked me how many kids I have and how old is my youngest and that her daughter has the SAME amount of kids and her daughter's oldest is 6, like my youngest. I was appalled. Am I missing something?

hadasa

Sun, Jan 17 2010, 1:44 am

the world's best mom wrote:

World's best, the bolded statements sound judgmental, whether you mean it that way or not. Although I hold very strongly of the "no BC unless when absolutely necessary" POV, when I hear that someone is using BC, (whether here or IRL), I will assume that for this person it was absolutely necessary. I can have a general opinion, but I have no idea what goes on in people's personal lives.
You, however, are not stating just a general point of view. You are saying that you think particular families of your aquaintance would have been better off with a break. I'm sorry, that is judgmental and NOYB.

hadasa

Sun, Jan 17 2010, 1:59 am

amother wrote:

life'sgreat wrote:

I can't tell for sure, since I wasn't there, but to me it seems possible that she was just making conversation and didn't mean anything by it.