How do you react when pple comment on # of kids?

Temilia

Sat, Jan 16 2010, 11:08 pm

hadasa wrote:

the world's best mom wrote:

If you want to say that bc is way overused, go ahead and say it. I won't curse you or your kids, I won't even be insulted. I might disagree with you though. Then again, I might not. You are welcome to start a new thread stating your opinions.

I made it clear that I do not judge specific big families but based on my own experiences, I see where a break could be very helpful. I also said I don't think these families are ruining their children, just that they would be able to give their kids more attention if they space them apart more. That is certainly not a reason to curse me that my children should give me grief.

World's best, the bolded statements sound judgmental, whether you mean it that way or not. Although I hold very strongly of the "no BC unless when absolutely necessary" POV, when I hear that someone is using BC, (whether here or IRL), I will assume that for this person it was absolutely necessary. I can have a general opinion, but I have no idea what goes on in people's personal lives.
You, however, are not stating just a general point of view. You are saying that you think particular families of your aquaintance would have been better off with a break. I'm sorry, that is judgmental and NOYB.

Have to agree with Hadasa on this.
I can't imagine why anyone else should have an opinion on someone else's family size. It's totally personal.

life'sgreat

Sun, Jan 17 2010, 12:16 am

Mollys Mama wrote:

The number of children has nothing to do with how they're raised. Raising a big family is definitely a challenge (& real fun too!!!! LOL

) but I don't see any connection between that & discipline. It depends on siyata dishmaya & the amount of time the parents invest in their children's chinuch.

Now, back to the original topic, here's a real senseless comment I heard recently...said to a woman that just had her 3rd baby. "hmmmm...so this is your 3rd? so you must be MY age, like 25-26" Really?! Do children grow in like teeth or are they reached like milestones?! Scratching Head

I also love the way ppl try to make their "calculations" by asking stupid questions "how old's your baby?" "are you still nursing?"

Calculations are actually ridiculously stupid IMO. I have it all the time. My classmates are starting to make Bar Mitzva while I did upsherin for my son just over a year ago. LOL

the world's best mom

Sun, Jan 17 2010, 6:29 am

Temilia wrote:

hadasa wrote:

the world's best mom wrote:

Have to agree with Hadasa on this.
I can't imagine why anyone else should have an opinion on someone else's family size. It's totally personal.

I will repeat- I do NOT judge specific families. I have never seen a large family and thought, "They have their kids too close in age." Obviously, they have what they feel they can handle. However, based solely on my OWN experiences, I see how wonderful that break can be.
My son is 18 months old and extremely difficult. I recently noted that dd #1, who was also extremely difficult, was a big sister at that age. And her baby sister had many medical issues. I was not able to deal with her behavior issues that well because I was so overwhelmed. Now I have ds pretty much under control. I enjoy him immensely instead of feeling so overwhelmed like I did when dd was little. He is still difficult and always moving and getting into everything, but he is not the terror that dd was, and I think a big part of the reason why is because I am able to deal with his behaviors well enough. I am not yelling at him all day and letting him run circles around me while I am trying to deal with a newborn with casts on her feet and at least one appointment a week.
Learning a lesson from my own career as a mother is very different than being judgemental of other families. I know I would be doing my children an injustice if I had another kid now. I don't try to decide when anyone else should be having another kid. I have no idea about anyone else.

energy11

Sun, Jan 17 2010, 2:22 pm

Hodu Lashem wrote:

energy11 wrote:

Thank you OP for your last post...

A breath of fresh air after all these obnoxious negative crtitics.

And for the few others who said my posts were nasty, please learn your lesson:

Don't you ever again, condemn mothers for having given life to their children!

You will get the worst out of them and it will be well-deserved!

the world's best mom wrote:

That is certainly not a reason to curse me that my children should give me grief.

I think you and ilovedacb are misinterpreting Energy's above post. I think the "them" she was referring to is the "mothers [who have] given life to their children". Meaning if you condemn mothers for giving life to thier children, then "you will get the worst out of [those mothers] and it will be well-deserved!" She was defending why she was so upset.
That is how I understood it and I couldn't understand why anyone would think she was cursing others with regards to their children.

I am not the author of the post, but I really think that is what she meant.

Yes, it is exactly what I meant...you will get the worst reactions out of us mothers.
NOW I understand what these comments were about me cursing them or their children.
I have NEVER cursed a soul in my whole life and I would never think of doing such a terrible thing!Well, I guess it was a communication problem, after all.

About spacing or not spacing between the children: of course, it would be easier to space, no question.

But me and others like me who share the same value system, don't believe the utmost value is to have an easier life, but rather to serve Hashem.

To make life easy and comfortable is typical of American values and standards, and that's why it clatches when American (or other non jews) are exposed to our large families.
Large families equal large amount of work, but we believe that we are giving Hashem Nachat (pleasure) by bringing down all these little Neshamas and doing the best possible job.

It is not an issue for me how many kids others have or don't have; as I said in my very first message, it is totally up to the couple and maybe their Rav to decide.
Being judgemental is not a quality. An opinion is legitimate, but expressing someone's opinion in a hurtful or derogatory to others is not.

chaylizi

Sun, Jan 17 2010, 3:07 pm

amother wrote:

I just have a dumb question. I keep seeing people writing that some comments they get are about they probably have no TV, no cable in the house...something like that.
I must be very slow or clueless, but can someone please tell me what the connection is with no TV and alot of kids? does it just mean that if they had tv they'd be too busy watching and not have relations?
thanks.

You guessed right.

It's a dumb question when people ask if you have a TV? Not everyone without a TV has a huge family. In any case, there is only a couple day window when conception is possible. So technically I could watch TV every night that it isn't shabbos, and skip maybe 2 days & I could still have conceived that month. Also, does anyone realize how crude & vile it is to ask someone to their face if they have relations often with their spouse because they have nothing better to do. People, you were given a brain! Stop and use it occasionally. Your mouth doesn't need to hemorrhage anything that comes to mind.

life'sgreat

Sun, Jan 17 2010, 3:16 pm

energy11 wrote:

But me and others like me who share the same value system, don't believe the utmost value is to have an easier life, but rather to serve Hashem.

To make life easy and comfortable is typical of American values and standards, and that's why it clatches when American (or other non jews) are exposed to our large families.
Large families equal large amount of work, but we believe that we are giving Hashem Nachat (pleasure) by bringing down all these little Neshamas and doing the best possible job.

It is not an issue for me how many kids others have or don't have; as I said in my very first message, it is totally up to the couple and maybe their Rav to decide.
Being judgemental is not a quality. An opinion is legitimate, but expressing someone's opinion in a hurtful or derogatory to others is not.

I happen to share the value system of not purposely spacing children or going on BC for that reason. However, that doesn't mean that everyone is cut out for it, or that everyone can just cope with large households etc... I've seen enough dysfunctional homes where the kids run amok, and grow up wounded beings who can't function on a healthy level. Believe me, those mothers would have done better by going on BC. It's Dinei Nefashos sometimes. It's a lofty ideal, but so is the husband learning etc... It just isn't for everyone.

One can bring Hashem Nachas, sometimes even more by living their life fully without having children that they clearly can't handle.

the world's best mom

Sun, Jan 17 2010, 6:08 pm

energy11 wrote:

About spacing or not spacing between the children: of course, it would be easier to space, no question.

But me and others like me who share the same value system, don't believe the utmost value is to have an easier life, but rather to serve Hashem.

To make life easy and comfortable is typical of American values and standards, and that's why it clatches when American (or other non jews) are exposed to our large families.
Large families equal large amount of work, but we believe that we are giving Hashem Nachat (pleasure) by bringing down all these little Neshamas and doing the best possible job.

It is not an issue for me how many kids others have or don't have; as I said in my very first message, it is totally up to the couple and maybe their Rav to decide.
Being judgemental is not a quality. An opinion is legitimate, but expressing someone's opinion in a hurtful or derogatory to others is not.

I agree with you here. I do not use bc to make my life easier, I use it to make it bearable. I simply could not manage without it, thanks to my children's issues and my poor coping skills. I do want a somewhat large family, and I plan to have another kid when I can manage it.

However, to have another kid now would not be giving anyone Nachas. It would make my home a hazard to my children's health and well being. As it is, I sleep with 2-3 kids in my twin bed with me, and one of those cries in pain all night while the baby is a horrible sleeper. My days are packed with therapy for all the kids, doctor's appointments, and trying to clear a big enough space to walk in my living room. I don't have time to do simple things like eat, sleep, and go to the bathroom. There is no way I could be even close to a functional human being if I would have another kid now.

I understand that most people have easier kids than I do, and many might cope better than I do (anyone who thinks they can cope better than me is welcome to come to my house and give it a try.) But I'm assuming there are some other women out there who are not superwoman. They may even need to use the bathroom or sleep occasionally. And there also seem to be some other difficult children out there. And so, anyone who feels as overwhelmed as I do may want to try bc for a little bit. It can't be that I'm the only one who NEEDS it.

For all of you women who feel that you and your kids are doing just fine, go ahead and have as many more kids as you want. It doesn't bother me.

Happy Mom

Sun, Jan 17 2010, 6:11 pm

I often get comments, since not only do we have a large family, we homeschool, which means that usually the kids are out with me when I go out. But I can't remember any negative comments. I think most people are just genuinely curious since large families in the secular world are uncommon. Just questions like, are they all yours? Usually everyone isn't with me and I honestly say, "no, there are three more at home". Some more of the questions I often get, and my responses, all said with a smile:

"How do you manage?" With a lot of help from G-d!

"Your hands must be full! Better full than empty.

"You sure are busy!" Isn't everyone?

"Are you planning to have more?" I'm not making any plans but it would be wonderful!

I really think a big part of the reason that the feedback that I get is almost uniformly positive (or at the very least neutral) is that I'm not apologetic or embarrassed at all - I love having a big family and people are very influenced by your attitude. Also, my kids are well behaved and we get a lot of compliments about them and their behavior; I think this also influences the response people have. I've had people tell us we should keep having more ("people like you should be having more kids"), that raising good children is the most valuable contribution that a person can make, etc.

I almost always hear: "You don't look like you have nine kids!" That used to always leave me wondering what they would expect a mother of a big family to look like, so often I now ask them to explain themselves. The answer always is: "You look so young/happy/calm!"

Hodu Lashem

Sun, Jan 17 2010, 6:16 pm

Happy Mom wrote:

Happy Mom, you an inspiration! Smile

chocolate fondue

Sun, Jan 17 2010, 6:23 pm

I HATE the TV comment. I get it from a printer I work with. I'm thinking 'Dude, it only takes one mikvah night...'

But the worst was a doctor I saw about two months after having my third, with a hormone problem. He asked me 'why don't you take a break?' At first I said 'yeah right' - to me, a break means vacation on a desert island. Then I realized what he meant and I was thinking 'dude, I just had this one and I'm nursing. Not likely to have another one any time soon and it ain't gonna help this problem anyway.' Exploding anger

My doctor warned me after my last (my 4th) that having more can be dangerous because it's a strain on the uterus or something. I was so annoyed! I told my MIL (who has 9 kids) and she just shrugged and said, 'plenty of survivors' I love my MIL!

amother

Mon, Jan 18 2010, 1:31 am

chaylizi wrote:

amother wrote:

You guessed right.

I am a little confused. Who are you talking to when you wrote to use thier brain? The posters here? We are not the ones asking the TV question, it is the people on the streets.