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Forum -> Pregnancy & Childbirth -> Baby Names

Names not names?

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amother

Sun, May 09 2010, 11:08 am

someone told me rena and shira are not considered names. is this true?

also I heard tzvi can only be used as a second name, but not a first?

micki

Sun, May 09 2010, 11:09 am

as the mother of a shira, I am confused?

Ruchel

Sun, May 09 2010, 11:12 am

Maybe the person doesn't believe in "modern" names or non Biblical names. I never heard these names are a problem. Tsvi can totally be a first name.

ewa-jo

Sun, May 09 2010, 11:13 am

That's strange. I know many very religious people with kids named 'Shira' or 'Rina'.... when I was in the hospital after I gave birth to my son, (Bikur Cholim Hospital in Israel... in Geula) one of the women in my room was named 'Kochava'... and she lived in Mea Shearim.

Ruchel

Sun, May 09 2010, 11:14 am

Kochava is actually traditional (several centuries).

Tablepoetry

Sun, May 09 2010, 11:18 am

Rena and Shira are very popular names. Shira in particular has become very 'in' with the dati leumi crowd in the past 5 years (the chilonim prefer 'Shir' for a girl).
Rena has been a popular name for decades, although it is not as current as Shira. Who told you these aren't names?
Kochava (mentioned above) is quite old-fashioned.

shalhevet

Sun, May 09 2010, 11:26 am

I happen to know first-hand (from a mother who was told this) that Reb Chaim Kanievsky shlita says Shira is not a name.

Other than that, I can't comment.

sequoia

Sun, May 09 2010, 11:27 am

I know a couple of hareidi Shiras.

Strange.

RachelEve14

Sun, May 09 2010, 11:32 am

I have a Rena, my charadi rav said nothing about the name. I also have an Avraham Tzvi, we call him by both names. Again the Rav never said anthing (although tzvi is the second name so maybe that's why?)

Mirabelle

Sun, May 09 2010, 11:39 am

I know about a bazillion Rina and Shiras.....all different ages and from different groups..

yo'ma

Sun, May 09 2010, 12:21 pm

It's a name if you make it into a name, period!! For some people it might be a strange name, but it's still the persons name.

shalhevet

Sun, May 09 2010, 2:02 pm

You can all say what you like but Reb Chaim holds differently. He told the parents to give the girl a new name instead - these are people I know personally.

shalhevet

Sun, May 09 2010, 2:04 pm

And I also know 2 girls personally whose parents were told by a rav (I don't know who, whether it was Reb Chaim or someone else) to change (ie not add, but change) their names. One was called Eden (as in Gan Eden), and the other Shilat.

kalsee

Sun, May 09 2010, 2:07 pm

what does "not a name" mean ? in the chumash people were called names when their mother thought of a meaning she wanted to convey. it wasn't an official "name".

Maybe R' Chaim doesn't think it's a "good" name , with mazal . I know a people with different names who were told to change , for various reasons.

I just don't get how something cuold be "not a name" Confused

Mommy3.5

Sun, May 09 2010, 8:40 pm

I know plenty of Tzvi's where its a first and only name...Same goes for Rena and Shira. Ask your own rav. Lots of people have their own opinions on what constitutes a name.

bobeli

Sun, May 09 2010, 11:40 pm

[ happen to know first-hand (from a mother who was told this) that Reb Chaim Kanievsky shlita says Shira is not a name.]

I know someone that wanted to name shira and asked Rav Chaim, he said not to give that name. He usualy advises to give a name for the parasha.

BTW I heard, I think in the name of the Chazon Ish that if you name in the name of a relative its a tikkun for the relative's neshama but if you give a name for the parasha it's a tikkun for the baby's neshama.

shalhevet

Mon, May 10 2010, 3:43 am

kalsee wrote:

what does "not a name" mean ? in the chumash people were called names when their mother thought of a meaning she wanted to convey. it wasn't an official "name".

They had a different level of ruach hakodesh which allowed them to use names for the first time.

Quote:

Maybe R' Chaim doesn't think it's a "good" name , with mazal . I know a people with different names who were told to change , for various reasons.

I just don't get how something cuold be "not a name" Confused

You and I are entitled to not understand what R' Chaim said. But that's what he said and if we don't understand that is our shortcoming, not that we have to make up that he said something completely different.

It might mean he holds a word that is not a name in the Torah is not a name. "Table" is not a name, right?

cinnamon

Mon, May 10 2010, 3:54 am

just to strengthen what shalhevet said, r' chaim told my dh personally that shira is not a name and it should be changed (he asked about a spesific person who was named shira)
BUT, he said this to my husband as a private psak and did not make this a public psak. so please don't go changing your name based on this. If you have any questions go ahead and ask either your personal LOR or r' chaim himself.

R' chaim paskens with personal circumstances in mind I know of two people who went to him to ask about the name Adina each one with a different story and a different reason to name this name. To one he said it is not a good name and he should choose a different one to the other he said it is a perfectly fine name and to go ahead and use it.

shalhevet

Mon, May 10 2010, 4:01 am

Excellent points cinammon - I apologise for maybe being irresponsible for posting that info without adding all those cautionary notes.

Because it was in baby names I didn't think that someone might change their name based on this, I was thinking of someone looking for a name for a new baby.

And of course there are other gedolim and it doesn't mean they hold the same way - everyone should ask their own gadol (I hesitate to say LOR because all this name stuff is not so simple and I doubt many LORs know about it).

kalsee

Mon, May 10 2010, 4:11 am

shalhevet wrote:

kalsee wrote:

what does "not a name" mean ? in the chumash people were called names when their mother thought of a meaning she wanted to convey. it wasn't an official "name".

They had a different level of ruach hakodesh which allowed them to use names for the first time.

Quote:

I'm not arguing about R' Chaim, not my league.

But yes , if you call someone "table" , then that is their name. A name is what you call someone.
(Don't get bogged down by the example, I'm talking about the rule).

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