I don't even know what to title this

amother

Fri, Jul 23 2010, 8:55 am

I'm not a person who is really sensitive if people won't eat at my house. I assume that anyone who doesn't want to eat my food will not accept an invite to my home.
Most people that I know will. We have catered our own simchos and very machmir, chassidishe people ate our food. We use only mehadrin hechsherim and don't mind getting a certain hechsher for meat or chicken if a guest requests it (for our simchos we get badatz). I was contacted by someone I knew in America, someone who davka I owed a lot to because they helped me, to tell me their daughter was here visiting with friends and could I find them a place to stay. I invited them to eat both shabbos meals by me and they accepted. It is now 3 hours to shabbos. They walked into my house as I'm busy cooking and preparing and told me that their parents are not comfortable with them eating anything other than badatz yerushalayim and can they just get food from the store and put it on my blech- they are so sorry for the imposition- yada yada.
I was flabbergasted and shocked and I'm not even sure what I said.
They left to "clarify things" with their parents after I asked them how they want this to work, putting their own food on my blech and then eating with my family. Why would they use my dishes?
I told them I said no to many other people because I said yes to them,
I cannot understand what kind of judaism these parents are teaching their daughters.
I cannot understand how, in any way what they did was acceptable.
I am embarrassed beyond words.
I am upset because I thought I was going to be able to give back to the peopple who helped me.

I cannot believe this.

amother

Fri, Jul 23 2010, 9:26 am

I'm so sorry they did that to you. I would be so disappointed and hurt too. The only thing I can say in their defense, having just gotten back from a month long trip to Israel with my family, is that kashrus in Israel is beyond confusing for Americans who aren't used to the hechshers and additional restrictions. It took me a week to figure out basic grocery shopping and two weeks to find out where/what kosher meat I could buy. Sometimes where we just don't know what's okay, we react by being understandably cautious and refraining from nearly everything until we get it all figured out. I'm not excusing these girls or their parents. I'm just saying that they may be confused and nervous. Not that they shouldn't have handled it better, but....

amother

Fri, Jul 23 2010, 9:35 am

I called a friend to try and comprehend them.
She said when they asked about places to eat lunch today and I said the 2 choices or hechsherim in our town were rabbanut yehuptzville and rabbanut yehupitzville mehadrin they took that to mean that all food in our town was from one of those 2 hechsherim, neither of which they are familiar with. So, they wanted to stick with what they know.
I thought that sounded ridiculous.
Guess what?
I called them back, and they were surprised to hear that the stores here carry all the same products as the ones in yerushalayim.
they are coming for both meals.

life'sgreat

Fri, Jul 23 2010, 10:38 am

amother wrote:

I think it's awesome that you clarified this instead of shlepping around those horrible feelings. As an American married to an Israeli, I can tell you that the hechshserim there are very confusing to chutznikim.

OOTBubby

Fri, Jul 23 2010, 2:38 pm

ILOVELIFE wrote:

Ok I'm glad it worked out but am I the only one who wouldn't have been upset by this?

Oh I wouldn't want MY kids doing that but if s/one came to me and said they brought their own food to put on the blech for say, health reasons I wouldn't be hurt and yes, I'd give them plastic goods if they care. Kashrus to me is no different. Again, I'm not saying that they were right-- they weren't. But I think I'd be fine with it as a hostess-- so I'll have extra food-- big deal.

I agree completely. As my DH and moved significantly to the right religiously compared to his family, we had so much difficulty getting our kashrus standards accommodated.

My policy is always that, please, if you have some standards beyond mine (which are quite high to start with), just tell me and I'll accommodate you. Because assorted married kids have taken on various things, we have also done so to keep our home at a level that they will have no question about.

And, if someone would want to bring their own food (I know people who don't eat anything cooked outside of their home), I'd have no problem with that. Though if I could prepare something acceptable to them, I'd certainly like to do that for them.

MiracleMama

Fri, Jul 23 2010, 4:05 pm

ILOVELIFE wrote:

Ok I'm glad it worked out but am I the only one who wouldn't have been upset by this?

Upset about someone having different kashrus standards or wanting to eat their own food for whatever reason? Not really. But disappointed that they didn't mention it before, that I went to so much trouble, that I was excited about being able to host and feed them as an expression of gratitude for all their parents did for me and now I can't? Yes, I would be.

Glad it all worked out in the end!

amother

Sun, Jul 25 2010, 4:04 am

ILOVELIFE wrote:

I would be just as perplexed and upset if they suddenly remembered they had these major health related food requirements 3 hours before shabbos came in when they knew they were coming to me from Wednesday.
As I said from my first post I have no issue being accommodating for people with different kashrus standards than me (yes ootbubby including my own kids) but I expect them to tell me slightly earlier than a few hours before shabbos.

shosh

Sun, Jul 25 2010, 4:54 am

I wonder what you'all would make of me then.

Ever since I got married, I only eat meat or chicken that is either Off Anash (I.e. Chabad) or Rav Landa. The only hechsherim I eat for anything else are Eida Chareidis, Landa, some Agudah, some Chasam Sofer - though the last two not on any fleishigs and only as a bidyeved. When I got divorced, some very dear friends who don't even eat mehadrin invited me for Shabbos when my kids started going to their father for visitation and I asked my Rav what to do. He said that if they give me my hechsherim it's ok to eat from their plates as it's not like they are treife. They eat different hechsherim, but they don't mix milk or meat or eat anything unhechshered. I couldn't eat heter mechirah on fruit and veg, but everything else was ok.

So these friends and I have our running joke about me bringing my "friends", the two Chabad chickens that I bring them every time (1 for now and 1 for the next time). They make sure that I get only the hechsherim that I eat, and we are all happy.

I have one or two other friends that I drive nutso like that, and that's what I do.

I have to say I don't inflict myself on anyone unless I can feel comfortable that this doesn't drive anyone round the bend and that they don't mind. I've never had any problem with this. Pple have been soooo kind and accommodating about my kashrus meshugassen, it's unbelievable. The only "situation" I have ever had was a really wonderful family who went out of their way to accommodate me. They asked me about every hechsher, etc. on everything and were really kind. Anyway, at the end of the visit, I see the wife piling up the dishwasher, and I still don't know why I asked, but I said something like, "That's so convenient for fleishig dishes after Yom Tov," so she smiled and told me that she washes all the dishes thoroughly and then does one wash fleishig and then another separate one milchig afterwards. As I'm not very good at hiding my facial expressions (though I try), she must have noticed my shock and she hastened to tell me that this is what her Rav told her to do. It was very awkward, as I can't imagine any Chabad Rav sanctioning this. Anyway, I haven't been invited back, so I thought I'd leave the issue on "the side" and not worry about it unless I get another invitation ...

But other than that, it has worked extremely well.

Judging by the responses I've seen on here, I don't know what you would all think of a person like me, though. Which is why I tend to either go to similar nuts like myself or just to a select group of pple who are really not offended by me in the least ...

amother

Sun, Jul 25 2010, 5:28 am

shosh wrote:

I wonder what you'all would make of me then.

Ever since I got married, I only eat meat or chicken that is either Off Anash (I.e. Chabad) or Rav Landa. The only hechsherim I eat for anything else are Eida Chareidis, Landa, some Agudah, some Chasam Sofer - though the last two not on any fleishigs and only as a bidyeved. When I got divorced, some very dear friends who don't even eat mehadrin invited me for Shabbos when my kids started going to their father for visitation and I asked my Rav what to do. He said that if they give me my hechsherim it's ok to eat from their plates as it's not like they are treife. They eat different hechsherim, but they don't mix milk or meat or eat anything unhechshered. I couldn't eat heter mechirah on fruit and veg, but everything else was ok.

So these friends and I have our running joke about me bringing my "friends", the two Chabad chickens that I bring them every time (1 for now and 1 for the next time). They make sure that I get only the hechsherim that I eat, and we are all happy.

You can come eat by me, we do the same thing to people. and it doesn't sound like I eat much more than you do.

I have one or two other friends that I drive nutso like that, and that's what I do.

I have to say I don't inflict myself on anyone unless I can feel comfortable that this doesn't drive anyone round the bend and that they don't mind. I've never had any problem with this. Pple have been soooo kind and accommodating about my kashrus meshugassen, it's unbelievable. The only "situation" I have ever had was a really wonderful family who went out of their way to accommodate me. They asked me about every hechsher, etc. on everything and were really kind. Anyway, at the end of the visit, I see the wife piling up the dishwasher, and I still don't know why I asked, but I said something like, "That's so convenient for fleishig dishes after Yom Tov," so she smiled and told me that she washes all the dishes thoroughly and then does one wash fleishig and then another separate one milchig afterwards. As I'm not very good at hiding my facial expressions (though I try), she must have noticed my shock and she hastened to tell me that this is what her Rav told her to do. It was very awkward, as I can't imagine any Chabad Rav sanctioning this. Anyway, I haven't been invited back, so I thought I'd leave the issue on "the side" and not worry about it unless I get another invitation ...

But other than that, it has worked extremely well.

Judging by the responses I've seen on here, I don't know what you would all think of a person like me, though. Which is why I tend to either go to similar nuts like myself or just to a select group of pple who are really not offended by me in the least ...

amother

Sun, Jul 25 2010, 6:15 am

Shosh, you seem to missing the point. My issue was not all about their not using the hechsherim I use- which wasn't even the issue- it was the odd way in which they informed me of this. Having no idea about other hechsherim and waiting until 3 hours before shabbos.
It was total ignorance and misunderstanding on their part. BH for my friend's great chap or I never would have understood what the problem was. How every thing was aok until 3 hours before shabbos, when they showed up at my house and spoke to me face to face.

I am always happy to oblige guests who ask for a particular hechsher. The boys who are coming in 2 weeks will probably bring me a piece of badatz meat for the cholent because its can be hard to find where I live and more expensive. I eat other hechsherim but for them I'm happy to use the badatz if they want it.

This situation was perplexing and handled incorrectly. That was the cause for the upset.
I hope that with your maturity and knowledge of Israeli hechsherim you would not have a situation like this. You would never make the mistake they did.