Andrea Yates found not guilty

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carrot

Thu, Jul 27 2006, 5:46 pm

Web definitions for Psychosis
An illness that prevents people from being able to distinguish between the real world and the imaginary world. Symptoms include hallucinations (seeing or hearing things that aren't really there, or delusions), irrational thoughts and fears.

Chani

Thu, Jul 27 2006, 6:03 pm

It is entirely possible that someone could be deemed sane enough to be released from a mental hospital, but not capable of being a custodial parent. Far different thresholds which courts would use to make those determinations.

As a practical matter, often hospitals release mental patients but the second that patient is "non-compliant" which may mean not picking up medication, not following up on out patient therapy, not following through on planned living arrangements, etc., recommitment hearings are held.

Hypothetically could someone be released from a mental hospital and then be allowed to retain custody of a child born later? Absolutely, and certainly has for many who've been hospitalized for depression, bi-polar, etc.. Would it ever happen in reality with someone who killed a child due to psychosis? Slim to none, and slim's out of town.

amother

Thu, Jul 27 2006, 6:40 pm

Then, as now, this story made me terribly sad. I experienced PPD. I got help.
Andrea Yates begged for help and was repeatedly hospitalized. She asked for medication and her doctors knew how bad her situation was. It was those @#*$&% insurance companies said, Nah...it's not a problem. Go home and be a parent. Oh, and lay the blame at the feet of her former husband. He wanted as many children as [b]she[/b] could bear. He was at work all day not at home with the children.
From what I know about PPD/PPP, and from my own experience, it does get worse with each pregnancy/birth. Instead of counseling this couple to have no more children, Mr. Yates wanted more - even though his wife's condition was grave years ago.
If we don't give these women the help they so desperately need this could be the result in extreme cases or alternatively, the woman commits suicide C"V"S, which is what happened here.
Again, we're [b]NOT[/b] talking about someone who is in their right mind. This is an extreme situation.
Andrea Yates needs help not incarceration. And her husband should not be allowed to father any more children given HIS previous track record.

Crayon210

Thu, Jul 27 2006, 6:42 pm

amother wrote:

Andrea Yates needs help not incarceration.

She will be getting help. Who's incarcerating her?

Quote:

And her husband should not be allowed to father any more children given HIS previous track record.

He hasn't done anything illegal, why should he be punished? Confused

mumsy23

Thu, Jul 27 2006, 7:01 pm

Just because he hasn't done anything illegal, doesn't mean he acted like a father/husband should. He was negligent and irresponsible. Two middos that don't go very well with parenthood.

Crayon210

Thu, Jul 27 2006, 7:16 pm

Okay, so saying he "shouldn't" be allowed to have more kids is just an emotional rant?

mumsy23

Thu, Jul 27 2006, 7:29 pm

basicly.

Crayon210

Thu, Jul 27 2006, 7:39 pm

Okay, thanks for clarifying. ;-)

(For the record, I of course agree.)

avigayil

Thu, Jul 27 2006, 7:49 pm

Andrea Yates started experieincing PPD and PP pyschosis after her 3'rd child.
Her physicians had warned her about having more kids, but her husband was not listening to that advice. In fact, he was against what these physicians were plainly telling him. In a way, I believe he is an accessory.

Crayon210

Thu, Jul 27 2006, 7:51 pm

Your belief and the American legal system are at odds in this case. Confused

Tefila

Thu, Jul 27 2006, 8:29 pm

Quote:

Her physicians had warned her about having more kids, but her husband was not listening to that advice. In fact, he was against what these physicians were plainly telling him. In a way, I believe he is an accessory.

Hello I don't believe not having more kids would've been the answer Exploding anger

but she homeschooled them why Question

it's mind boggling if she was diagnosed with ppd Exclamation

and If she was stressed out then he/ they should've arranged more help for her to cope should take her out once aweek .
But not having more kids is not always the answer pllease.

Imo that is a cop out answer given in lots of situations Non Jewish and Jewish alike unfortunatley Exclamation

Mommy912

Thu, Jul 27 2006, 10:08 pm

Tefila wrote:

Quote:

Hello I don't believe not having more kids would've been the answer Exploding anger

but she homeschooled them why Question

it's mind boggling if she was diagnosed with ppd Exclamation

Tefila, I don't think I have ever disagreed with you - but I can't believe you wrote this post.
To put this in Jewish terms:
This is a woman who is suffering from PPD. She has it so bad that she went for treatment, and the doctors realized the extent of her condition and warned her against aggravating her situation by having more kids. This is a situation of Pikuach Nefesh, and she went against the advice of her doctor - and if she would have been Jewish undoubtably her Rav would have been told the seriousness of her disease and given her a heter.
She disobeyed this advice and the worse-case scenario came true. Her depression caused her to kill her children.
HOW CAN YOU CALL TAKING BIRTH CONTROL IN A SITUATION OF SAKANA A COP OUT!!!!
She is guilty of not taking the doctors advice and NOT taking the birth control.
How can you say that someone who is seriously ill should not take birth control?
I really feel that you have written a terrible post. Do you want other members who have a heter because of PPD to feel that they are 'copping out'?

yoyosma

Thu, Jul 27 2006, 10:10 pm

mommy912, to add to your post, doesnt PPD get worse with each subsequent birth? Maybe using BC would have lessened the severity of her disease.

Last edited by yoyosma on Thu, Jul 27 2006, 11:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

cindy324

Thu, Jul 27 2006, 10:51 pm

mommy912 I completely agree with you! Tefila, I'm shocked as well!

I just watched the primetime special on AY.

The docs told her that PPD gets worse with each preg. DO NOT have more!
Rusty decided, heck with the docs lets have more!

After having her last baby, she was put on Haldol, an anti psychotic drug, was told that she must not be left alone with the children.

16 days before she killed the kids, her doc took her off the Haldol, only took a couple of days for the psychotic episodes to begin, and on the morning of the murder, her MIL was running late. This was her window of opportunity.

Rusty introduced her to some wacko street preacher, who made a videotape, dressed in a devil-like costume, saying that it is a mother's job to protect her kids from "eternal damnation" Andrea watched this.

She described how she believed she was possessed by satan and the only way to keep her kids from being possessed, and therefore assuring them a place in heaven, is to send them to heaven before it's too late, and they end up in hell instead.

she is now on meds, and is tormented by her actions.

from what I saw, this is not a woman who killed her kids to make life easier for herself.

her lawyer said that she placed her baby daughter on the bed into the arms of her dead brother, as if to have him protect her, and later asked if the children made it to heaven.

Crying

just heartwrenching

mimsy7420

Fri, Jul 28 2006, 10:10 am

cindy324 wrote:

mommy912 I completely agree with you! Tefila, I'm shocked as well!

Quote:

I just watched the primetime special on AY.

The docs told her that PPD gets worse with each preg. DO NOT have more!
Rusty decided, heck with the docs lets have more!

After having her last baby, she was put on Haldol, an anti psychotic drug, was told that she must not be left alone with the children.

16 days before she killed the kids, her doc took her off the Haldol, only took a couple of days for the psychotic episodes to begin, and on the morning of the murder, her MIL was running late. This was her window of opportunity.

Rusty introduced her to some wacko street preacher, who made a videotape, dressed in a devil-like costume, saying that it is a mother's job to protect her kids from "eternal damnation" Andrea watched this.

She described how she believed she was possessed by satan and the only way to keep her kids from being possessed, and therefore assuring them a place in heaven, is to send them to heaven before it's too late, and they end up in hell instead.

she is now on meds, and is tormented by her actions.

from what I saw, this is not a woman who killed her kids to make life easier for herself.

her lawyer said that she placed her baby daughter on the bed into the arms of her dead brother, as if to have him protect her, and later asked if the children made it to heaven.

Crying

just heartwrenching

its such a sad story...

Tefila

Fri, Jul 28 2006, 10:26 am

Quote:

HOW CAN YOU CALL TAKING BIRTH CONTROL IN A SITUATION OF SAKANA A COP OUT!!!!

Was she a religous catholic Question

Ok.ok

I got your point Exclamation

perhaps it was after another thread that I got caught up embarrassed

.

Yes in some situations b-c is critical and the husband hers had no placinhg saying no. Exclamation

It's just that sometimes we are quick to bandaid a situation without getting to the cause. Once someone has ppd are her other kids at risk why was she left alone with them why did she homeschool she could've done something to herself too. B-c may not have been the answer but medication and desperate daily help a monitoring eye etc. What made anyone who knew her think the rest of her kids were safe.

So what do we learn from this that anyone who has coping issues, ppd we say no more kids, or supply help incl medication and tell husband not to be blind to the problem etc etc b/c who knows we could end up with another andrea yates What

Was her problem having kids or marriage and her constitution in general Scratching Head

Mommy912

Fri, Jul 28 2006, 11:24 am

Tefila wrote:

It's just that sometimes we are quick to bandaid a situation without getting to the cause.

No one will ever know for sure what went wrong in this case.
You have to realize that if you don't put on a bandaid than you can bleed to death. There should be no shame or stigma placed on those who are smart enough to ask for help.

mimsy7420

Fri, Jul 28 2006, 11:26 am

Tefila wrote:

Was her problem having kids or marriage and her constitution in general Scratching Head

I think it was probably a mixture of the three...

imanut

Fri, Jul 28 2006, 12:28 pm

Quote:

So what do we learn from this that anyone who has coping issues, ppd we say no more kids, or supply help incl medication and tell husband not to be blind to the problem etc etc b/c who knows we could end up with another andrea yates

all of the above.[/quote]

mumsy23

Fri, Jul 28 2006, 12:46 pm

Cindy,

That part about her putting her daugher in her dead son's arms... I think it ruined my day. What an unbelievably sad story. Just thinking about how Andrea must feel and how she killed her children makes me want to cry.

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