Religious doubt in children

amother

Thu, Dec 16 2010, 2:03 pm

This is my real issue, but I also view it as a kind of test post for the gifted child forum-- would I need such a forum or not?

Here it goes:

My son is extremely bright. He is very curious about religious matters and thankfully I am educated enough to have intelligent discussions with him about it, but one day I'm afraid it won't be enough anymore. When he was five he asked me whether Maaseh Beraishis was a myth (used those words) and when I explained to him that some people do believe that and why we believe differently (and the varieties of opinion within our own hashkafa) he concluded on his own that it wasn't. The other day he referred to Techiyas Hameisim as a "crazy rumor" and one of the things he's been busy with lately is parsing the Avraham story-- from the Torah perspective AND from the Muslim perspective. He's 7. I love his curiosity and I know I am handling it correctly now, but ultimately religion asks us to subjugate our intelligence (as someone with a very active intellect of my own I really appreciate that aspect of being a religious person.) But I can see that part of it becoming a real issue for him (because it already is now.) And while we can have great discussions and I can answer his questions, one day he will have to be satisfied with 'we don't know all the answers" and my biggest fear is that he will just give it all up. Any thoughts?

amother

Thu, Dec 16 2010, 2:16 pm

I will put up front that I was a gifted child; I had religious doubt; it was brushed aside, and I abandoned my parent's religion.

as an adult, I converted to Judaism.

My parents (esp. mom) were very religious, and when I would ask questions (esp. things like absolute good vs. absolute evil, exploring shades of gray, authenticity of the "origins" of the religion), they and religious leaders tried to shame me or tell me that my faith wasn't strong enough, or tell me that inquiries like mine were evil/wrong.

I think that many very bright people question G-d and struggle with religion. As an adult, I arrived at Judaism as a religion that was authentic, good, had rationalities, etc. Does that mean that I'm totally comfortable with the aspects that I have to take by faith alone? Not always. Is it sometimes difficult to teach my own children things, given some discomfort? of course.

I think the most important thing to do with your child is to engage in the dialogue, not foreclose it. If he has questions that you can't answer, you can respond with, "Well, I don't know, but I'm sure the sages considered that over the centuries. When you study talmud later in life, you will likely find discourse on this very point... ?" that way, you validate the questions, you are honest that you don't have all the answers, and you give him a future point where he can learn more.

Ultimately, he will choose his own path, but it does not have to be away from religion. I would encourage you to be as honest and supportive as you can of his explorations.

amother

Thu, Dec 16 2010, 5:17 pm

OP from original gifted thread...

My son isn't asking religious questions yet but I'm definitely concerned they will eventually come up. Gifted children, as I've pointed out on the other threads are going to come up with emuna questions surprisingly early. It's nothing you've done wrong.

And this is why I want a gifted, closed forum. For issues like this that come up. We can discuss these things without worrying about what others will think or if they will judge us.

I also struggled with religious questions starting age 10 (don't think I personally am gifted though, just smart) and got brushed aside by my parents and my school. Eventually I got a hold of some kiruv books and they really helped me.

Recommended: Permission to Believe and Permission to Receive by Lawrence Keleman. Take a look around Aish.com and Chabad.org as well. I also highly recommend anything by Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan tz"l.
Also Masterplan is amazing. It's by Rabbi Aryeh Carmell.

Hope that helps and good luck + hugs.

amother

Thu, Dec 16 2010, 5:59 pm

Thanks for the responses. As I wrote, it's not that I'm afraid I can't answer his questions. I've spent my whole life (yes, my whole life-- no great wonder where he get's it from Wink

) grappling with these issues, so I can answer him to the extent that the questions are answerable. And because I've put so much of myself into these questions, and because theology and philosophy are what interest me in life, I LOVE that he asks them and I LOVE discussing them with him, and I am usually able to give him satisfying answers. But as I grew up and continued to look for answers, eventually you come to a place where you realize that there aren't always going to be satisfying answers on in intellectual level. In religion this is an answer in itself, but to someone who falls into the trap of worshiping his own intellect it is going to seem like a cop out. My fear is that he will fall into that trap.

But I do understand that I am doing my best and will continue to do so, and to also give him an incredible amount of love, a warm home and positive feelings about being frum-- I think this is just as important as (if not more important than) dealing with his questions, which I do anyway. That's a big part of where I get my nachas from him.

amother

Thu, Dec 23 2010, 3:07 am

There's a few issues here.
There are some people that go off the derech because of religious doubts. I know I claimed my religious doubts were the reason I went off the derech, but the real reason I didn't believe was that I didn't want to believe because I was so wronged by the frum world and treated so horribly that I didn't want to have anything to do with yiddishkeit.
Many people that claim religious doubts as reasons for going off the derech is actually just a cover- the reason they went off was because of emotional issues.

Which to me, is more of a concern. The emotional needs of our society's gifted kids are not being met. They're ridiculed. Called chutzpadik (both for asking questions and for correcting teachers). Mocked. Stifled.
That is the reason that makes them go off the derech.

Yes, there are people who go off the derech because of purely intellectual reasons. But those people are few and far between.

As for me, what made me come back wasn't the answers I got. It was because one person was willing to listen. One person was willing to give me the time of day. One person who showed me that yes, I was loveable. Yes, she also gave me answers, but it wasn't the answers that brought me back- it was the way they were given to me.

And yes, this is something I fear a lot.

triLcat

Thu, Dec 23 2010, 5:14 am

I'm sure I sound like a huge apikores, but I think you can be a good, religious Jew without believing 100% in G-d as portrayed by the Torah and rabbanim.

I think it's really normal to have doubts about G-d, about His goodness, and about how the world works. I believe that the world was created and didn't just *Poof!* appear out of the randomness., but I have days where I'm pretty sure that the G-d that protected Avraham, Yitzhak, and Yaakov is not available or present.

I do know that Jewish life and a Jewish community add a richness to my life that nothing else can parallel. I know that making brachot on food reminds me to appreciate the fact that I have food. I know that davening helps me focus on the important things in my life. Keeping Shabbat makes sure that I take a few hours away from the computer to be with my family and friends.

Even on the days that my faith in G-d is not perfect, my faith in Yiddishkeit is.

grin

Thu, Dec 23 2010, 2:38 pm

amother wrote:

it's good to see someone intelligent who's willing to accept a child's healthy questioning, but I strongly disagree that religiosity demands subjugating our seichel. Struggling with questions and looking for answers is good exercise for the brightest.

There are answers for just about everything in Yiddishkeit - more so than you would get from a rocket scientist. Yes, science also depends on axioms at its foundation, and these are taken also on faith alone. once I understood this, I decided that I would much prefer to have faith in gedolei yisroel than in the scientists, who are constantly changing their minds.

the only thing that we need to accept, IMO, is that G-d is beyond our understanding, by His very definition of being greater than anything that has been created by Him.

amother

Thu, Dec 23 2010, 3:18 pm

grin wrote:

amother wrote:

That doesn't contradict anything I said. You said it yourself-- we are required to admit that there are things that we don't and cannot understand. There aren't answers for everything. I am happy with that, and I actually believe that the struggle to understand is the essence of what it means to be a frum person. My issue was more with my own fears about my son's trajectory as I see that the answers to the things that he questions do sit well with him now, but I am afraid that as he gets older they won't anymore. Not because there is something inherently flawed with Judaism at all, but because even as a small child his entire life revolved around logic and rationality, and a religious lifestyle can satisfy most of that but not all of that.

I do agree with the amother who went otd, and I have heard that refrain a lot-- that is why I wrote above that my main goal is to be a loving, caring, nurturing mother to him, and who can reign him in when it's necessary without stifling him. It's not easy, but I think I'm doing a good job with him so far.

(Just as a side point-- I know you are Lubavitch and maybe that's why you feel you have more answers-- because your Weltenschauung incorporates mysticism and that never spoke to me personally as in my mind accepting kabbalistic explanations requires too much of a leap of faith. You also speak about faith in gedolim, something that isn't really in my vernacular either.)

grin

Thu, Dec 23 2010, 3:27 pm

amother wrote:

grin wrote:

amother wrote:

I'd first like to mention that I became a strong Lubavicher after reading all sorts of interesting answers in the Rebbe's sichos to questions that were germinating in my head since HS; I didn't grow up this way at all.

2ndly, in regard to the answers he's given now not being adequate in years to come - BH! Isn't it like that for all of us questioning people? So he'll continue to question again and again, each time iyh finding even more satisfying answers. I also feel this is an important part of frumkeit - to constantly search for even more understanding - IMO that's one reason Hashem gave us our seichel. (This also meshes with the Chabad approach, btw.)