Hamodia's letters regarding Men and Parnassah

Insomniac

Mon, Feb 28 2011, 3:53 pm

Hi, I was wondering your thoughts about it. There has been much back and forth about the topic of whether a woman belongs at home and a man supports. I'm a kollel family and I must say that the letters of pro men working kind of struck a cord with me...but then this weeks letter regarding the Satan made me feel bad and now I'm torn.
What were your feelings?

saw50st8

Mon, Feb 28 2011, 3:56 pm

My feeling is that people need to decide what's best for their own family and figure out a way to support it on their own. Both Kollel and SAHM.

In an ideal world, we could have both, but life is not ideal. Most people can't even afford one long term.

sequoia

Mon, Feb 28 2011, 4:05 pm

You need to figure out what works best for your family.

PinkFridge

Mon, Feb 28 2011, 4:26 pm

Was this the daily Hamodia? Which day? I only get the weekly.
If anyone here has the ear of Hamodia, can the letters about the weekly edition go in the weekly?

Chocoholic

Mon, Feb 28 2011, 5:22 pm

The ketubah is very clear Wink

PinkFridge

Mon, Feb 28 2011, 6:06 pm

Chocoholic wrote:

The ketubah is very clear Wink

Rabbi Reisman said that he tells boys in kollel that since their wives have waived their rights to this obligation in order to further the Torah of these young men that they'd better excel in other arenas of the kesubah, like respect.

seeker

Mon, Feb 28 2011, 7:44 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

Chocoholic wrote:

The ketubah is very clear Wink

I made it very clear at the time of the kesuba that I wasn't waiving any rights. I did volunteer to support my husband in learning for as long as possible, and so far so good, but bottom line it's still his responsibility to see that his family is cared for. If he sees to it by encouraging me to keep working, fine. But if I can't/won't anymore, there's no "waived rights' business here.

That said, I still agree with Rabbi Reisman, though I'd phrase it differently!

PinkFridge

Mon, Feb 28 2011, 8:32 pm

seeker wrote:

PinkFridge wrote:

Chocoholic wrote:

The ketubah is very clear Wink

Very likely he did. How about "temporarily suspending" or something like that.

snood

Tue, Mar 01 2011, 4:56 am

Nowadays usually both spouses need to go out and work,

If you were blessed with a large sum of money or can find a way to make it work without putting enormous pressure on one the other spouse or it negatively affecting the kids great. but this is rare.

HindaRochel

Tue, Mar 01 2011, 9:48 am

I personally think it is best for the children if mom is home and dad works, at least for the years while the children are young, basically (IMHO) until you are fine with letting the children stay home alone if ill (minor illness where they can't go to school but otherwise function fine.) If the husband is willing to leave his learning and go home to take care of a sick child, than before that, once the children have weaned, then dad being the main childcare taker is fine as well.

I do believe in Kollel both before the children are born and after they are old enough so the wife can go to work. I also feel it is fine to work part-time, again with the stipulation that children come first.

I do not feel it is right, however, to posit as a norm a wife working and a husband at kollel while there are young children. I don't think it healthy for anyone. I think it would be healthier to adopt the plan I outlined above with only the best of learners staying in kollel, and they would be supported either on a one to one basis or generally by the community, but again, only those who could be supported in such a way that the wife could be home while the children were young.

But honestly, how is my opinion going to effect anyone else's decision on how to run another's life?

Insomniac, if I understand correctly you are having second thoughts? Were you already feeling "something isn't right" (if my first statement is correct?) Can you change your path at this point? What steps would you need to do so?

PinkFridge

Tue, Mar 01 2011, 10:48 am

Insomniac wrote:

Could you give us a thumbnail sketch of the letter?

amother

Seafoam

Tue, Mar 01 2011, 12:57 pm

Deleted.

Last edited by amother on Sat, Jan 02 2016, 9:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

mimivan

Tue, Mar 01 2011, 12:59 pm

Chocoholic wrote:

The ketubah is very clear Wink

Insomniac

Tue, Mar 01 2011, 1:12 pm

How do I get a sketch of a letter? The letters were for the past 3 weeks in the weekly magazine section by the letters section. Basically one woman started bashing the fact that women are out working while husband's are not and how kids need moms at home and how no one can take place of a mother.
The replies back these past few weeks were both for and against the original author. Their arguments is that, as someone else mentioned in this thread, that with this economy you need dual incomes...no way can one work. another comment was what should we do? should a husband work himself sick because a mother needs to be home? Another mentioned the kesuba of how the husband has to provide and how the whole 'kollel' thing started after ww2 because America was lacking in Torah and the rabbanim saw this as the only solution. They brought proofs of how all Tzaddikim and Chachamim in the past worked in order to support their families and learned before and afterwards. That same writer went on to say something along the lines that now that B'H Torah is thriving and our men know how to learn and the chashivos we need to go back to the way it was and the way it 'was meant to be'. A reply to THAT was written by a rebbetzin in England who stated that the Satan got us. How women are not complaining about their roll and working so that their husband's can learn. She said that R' Akiva said that his torah is her Torah since she let him learn. she also went on to say that its okay for the husbands to work and the wives leave their kids with nanny's and babysitters so that they can go get their coffee or have someone else to put their kids to sleep so that they can go out?
Its still in discussions and I probably left vital pieces of info out, but that is basically the gist of things.

That being said, I do agree with Opiniated that there are more jobs for the women nowadays, but I think that is mostly in the frum cities....and at the same time, I'm not so sure how I feel about that....it kind of puts more pressure on the woman in a sense...
Either way, as I said originally, its a conflict but I've come to the conclusion that its something that one needs to discuss with her husband....that is the only solution.

PinkFridge

Tue, Mar 01 2011, 1:16 pm

[quote="Insomniac"]
Thanks. I must have skipped that. I'll have to go dig it up.
I don't know why but referencing the Satan often turns me off of whatever people have to say.