Ask a Shailah or Use Common Sense?

TzenaRena

Tue, Sep 26 2006, 8:20 am

Marney wrote:

If he had said no, then what? I would have forced another close-timed pregnancy on my already overworked body? Do I or don't I know what my body and mind is capable of handling?

No, we may think we do, but only Hashem really knows. He knows what will be three, or ten or twenty years down the line.

That is why we rely on Him to make this decision, which asking a Rav goes under the category of. If the Rav had said no, the syatah d'shmaya that he has in answering shailohs means that your body and mind ARE capable of handling it, and Hashem is giving you the koichos. Any block that you would feel about that would be coming from the "other side" the "left ventricle" aka yetzer hora.

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Sep 26 2006, 8:28 am

SaraYehudis wrote:

Marney wrote:

If he had said no, then what? I would have forced another close-timed pregnancy on my already overworked body? Do I or don't I know what my body and mind is capable of handling?

and I have to say that I totally disagree with you.
I think that a mother that wants to take BC for the wealfare of her body and soul and her other children knows her body at that time. she is not thinking about 5, 10, 20 years down the line. she is thinking about the here and now.

I think that there was already a thread about BC and what HaShem knws is good for us, that sort of thing, so I dont want to argue again (b/c I will if it comes up) but just agree to disagree about this, ok? you are not going to convert us ppl who beleive that BC is a woman's decision and thats that.

Esther01

Tue, Sep 26 2006, 8:46 am

every couple-family, is different in this aspect. but I believe that a husband should be able to answer most 'simple' questions. in other words, a man should be able to open a 'kitzur shulchan oruch' or a 'mishnah brurah' and read up the halacha.

of course when things are not straight forward halacha, then you ask.

this is my opinion and it works great for us.

also there are a lot of things that are not the letter of the law but rather the spirit of the law... then a shaila won't answer your question regardless... so use your common sense right away.

busymom

Tue, Sep 26 2006, 8:53 am

SaraYehudis wrote:

Marney wrote:

If he had said no, then what? I would have forced another close-timed pregnancy on my already overworked body? Do I or don't I know what my body and mind is capable of handling?

Hashem commanded each person: v'nishmartem meod l'nafshstechem. each woman knows her own limits and must pay attention to her body when it shows signs of extreme stress. there are women out there who are stronger than others - whether mentally, physically, or both! - and they will never completely understand someone to whom childbearing does not come as easily. thank Hashem for ur lot in life and try not to judge others!
unfortunately, I personally know someone who will never be the same again bc peer pressure prevented her from admitting her own limitations. now she has a heter to be on bc, but it's too late. the damage has been done. had she gotten on it earlier, she would eventually have been able to bear more children than she will be able to in her current situation. so by giving someone like that the above mussar, u r actually defeating what u r trying to accomplish.

(I just reread this post and decided to edit it by adding the following bc my thoughts may not have been presented clearly:
I don't disagree with going to the rav; I think s/o in this situation SHOULD speak to a rav. I only disagree with this point: "If the Rav had said no, the syatah d'shmaya that he has in answering shailohs means that your body and mind ARE capable of handling it..."
If a woman truly feels her health may be jeopardized if she does not get a heter for bc, she should STILL speak to a rav, BUT use "common sense" as indicated in my post above - meaning she should make sure the rav she approaches has experience is these matters, and not s/o who is known to give heteirim only in very rare instances.

Last edited by busymom on Tue, Oct 03 2006, 2:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

de_goldy

Wed, Sep 27 2006, 9:59 pm

amother wrote:

I am confused, I thought things like Mikvah night and bc. were guestions to ask a Rov where as if you could dress down was more like asking guidance since it was something he was not comfortable about and not so much a guestion. Are we women just making up our own decisions as to if we THINK it is a guestion? Maybe it is better to ask even if not sure if we need to, then to make a mistake. I would call it Yiras Shomayim.

Good point and well said.

As for the last line, sadly, for some people this is not something they consider important.

Motek

Thu, Sep 28 2006, 7:18 pm

busymom wrote:

, BUT she do her homework too, so she knows she'll get the answer she needs.

Uh, if she knows, then what's the point in asking? To rubberstamp her decision?
Someone else posted a similar comment, seems mighty strange to me. To ask to be yotzei asking?

Quote:

for example, I know about a rav who didn't have kids for many yrs and has a hard time understanding someone in such a situation. he only gives a heter in very rare and extreme cases. that's def the wrong address! so even when asking a sheilah, STILL use common sense!

How many people's personal situations and questions have been shared with you that you have this information? shock

Sounds quite damning to say that a rav is not objective.

Two points to add to the discussion:

How about asking your rav what to ask him about! Isn't THAT a good question to ask?

And there are people who don't ask but if they WOULD, they would be mighty surprised to discover that the rav is more lenient than they would have been! The thread so far sounds like the premise is the rav will be stricter and therefore don't ask ....

amother

Fri, Sep 29 2006, 6:58 am

WOW what a thread!!! I am utterly shocked at what some people wrote. I think there is a major need for some people to go to shiurim and learn. I also at some point thought that womens issues are not for rabbanim to decide since I am a woman and they are a man they can't understand my body/make descisions..ect.. but I was very surprised how much they understand and maybe I should point out that things like BC and major shailos like that are not to be asked to a Rabbi but to a Rav there is a difference. a Rav usualy has more experience and in situations where a mothers health (mental or physical is in question) a heter would be given, or if there are shalom bayis issues or anything else. The important thing is to go to a rav who is experienced and can pasken on these issues, say honestly what your situation is and take the answer. ( I m getting a feeling that those who don't want to go to a rav are either embaraced which is understandable or just want to do their own thing, but the Torah is not about doing your own thing.) So yes use common sense to go to the proper RAV. I also agree that basic halacha books are very helpful. It is generaly known that woman who don't feel well or are nursing or pregnant don't need to fast accept 9 av and YK so the mother who fasted with 3 kids and no husband I hope Hashem rewards 10x than the pain you indured at that time. No I don't think you need to ask your Rav/Rabbi what tie to wear for that there is a mashpia unless its only a lubav thing but if your rabbi/rav is your mashpia/person you take guidance from than go ahead BETTER BE SAFE THAN SORRY ( I don't mean this phrase in regards to the cloth but to general halacha things).
Each situation to each person is different a Rav should be able to see what that person's situation is and what this person can handle. Yes if you go to a rav you are accepting the fact that you will do what he says AGREE OR NOT. besides there are strickter rabbanim and more linient in different issues if you want a heter for BC and you know your rav is very strickt you can ask a more linient rav. Like the Rav in my city is very strickt on halachos of tahara and its widely known in lub community. My kalla teacher told me I can use a diff. rav in Crown Heights if I need. and even that strickt rav when I spoke to him I was ammazed and how much he understands and knows and grasps everything and is so helpful.
I guess another thing is that there are woman here of different level of observance and thats why there are so many clashes on this issue. Some people still need a lot of growing to do . Actualy we all do me included.

Marion

Sun, Oct 29 2006, 12:34 am

I think every situation is different. There are situations where I (or DH) can look it up in the Kitzur (although the KSA tends to be machmir) or the Mishna Brura and know what we're supposed to be doing. And then there are times that we've looked it up in multiple sources and are so confused about whether or not the situation is the same as the example brought that we HAVE to ask the Rav. Or we have a problem that's sooooooo far removed from reality that we are clueless and so is the Rav. (Like the week we had a mouse problem and I didn't know what to do on Shabbat with the plata...if a mouse climbed on it and it was on would it be treif? What if we found droppings on it? Or worse...a burnt dead mouse? Would I be able to use it Shabbat day if it happened overnight? What if I covered it? Between halacha and common sense we found a solution...)

Sometimes common sense comes into play. Do you make your 8 month old wait 6 hours (or even 3) before he has formula if he had chicken for lunch? (I nurse, so that's my "common sense" solution...) Of course not! Because you'd be stuck with a very, very, very cranky infant who was thirsty or hungry and you'd go out of your mind. That's common sense. However, by the time the same child is a year old you might start making him wait an hour and teaching him.

For TH, we all use our common sense. If we have a stain we're not sure about, we ask a Rav. But what else do we do? KEEP COUNTING! Because it's common sense you want to get to the mikvah as soon as possible and if you stop counting you have to start all over, even if the Rav says it's OK.

We're women (and men...our DH's have questions too), but not idiots.

shalhevet

Sun, Oct 29 2006, 12:44 am

Marion wrote:

I think every situation is different. There are situations where I (or DH) can look it up in the Kitzur (although the KSA tends to be machmir)

I have never heard this in my life that the Kitzur is machmir (and I know people across the spectrum of Orthodoxy). Guess machmir here means "more than I want to do."

Quote:

Sometimes common sense comes into play. Do you make your 8 month old wait 6 hours (or even 3) before he has formula if he had chicken for lunch? (I nurse, so that's my "common sense" solution...) Of course not! Because you'd be stuck with a very, very, very cranky infant who was thirsty or hungry and you'd go out of your mind. That's common sense. However, by the time the same child is a year old you might start making him wait an hour and teaching him.

What on earth do you need "common sense" for this one? Don't you think there's an answer in halacha? In fact, if you ask a rav you may just discover that your common sense is very machmir.

Quote:

For TH, we all use our common sense. If we have a stain we're not sure about, we ask a Rav. But what else do we do? KEEP COUNTING! Because it's common sense you want to get to the mikvah as soon as possible and if you stop counting you have to start all over, even if the Rav says it's OK.

Absolutely! But what has that got to do with using common sense INSTEAD of asking a rav?

Marion

Sun, Oct 29 2006, 6:53 am

mummyof6 wrote:

Marion wrote:

I think every situation is different. There are situations where I (or DH) can look it up in the Kitzur (although the KSA tends to be machmir)

I have never heard this in my life that the Kitzur is machmir (and I know people across the spectrum of Orthodoxy). Guess machmir here means "more than I want to do."

Quote:

What on earth do you need "common sense" for this one? Don't you think there's an answer in halacha? In fact, if you ask a rav you may just discover that your common sense is very machmir.

Quote:

Absolutely! But what has that got to do with using common sense INSTEAD of asking a rav?

Why do you so enjoy putting words in my mouth?

shalhevet

Sun, Oct 29 2006, 8:15 am

Marion wrote:

mummyof6 wrote:

Marion wrote:

I think every situation is different. There are situations where I (or DH) can look it up in the Kitzur (although the KSA tends to be machmir)

I have never heard this in my life that the Kitzur is machmir (and I know people across the spectrum of Orthodoxy). Guess machmir here means "more than I want to do."

Quote:

What on earth do you need "common sense" for this one? Don't you think there's an answer in halacha? In fact, if you ask a rav you may just discover that your common sense is very machmir.

Quote:

Absolutely! But what has that got to do with using common sense INSTEAD of asking a rav?

Why do you so enjoy putting words in my mouth?

And where did I do that? Confused

Marion

Sun, Oct 29 2006, 9:49 am

mummyof6 wrote:

Marion wrote:

mummyof6 wrote:

Marion wrote:

I think every situation is different. There are situations where I (or DH) can look it up in the Kitzur (although the KSA tends to be machmir)

I have never heard this in my life that the Kitzur is machmir (and I know people across the spectrum of Orthodoxy). Guess machmir here means "more than I want to do."

Quote:

What on earth do you need "common sense" for this one? Don't you think there's an answer in halacha? In fact, if you ask a rav you may just discover that your common sense is very machmir.

Quote:

Absolutely! But what has that got to do with using common sense INSTEAD of asking a rav?

Why do you so enjoy putting words in my mouth?

And where did I do that? Confused

Quote:

Guess machmir here means "more than I want to do."

It's not what I said and it's not what I meant. You've done it in other threads too.