neighbor is invading!

mamochka

Sun, Jul 17 2011, 2:49 pm

amother wrote:

op, thanks again for replies. I feel there is a reason why I was given this "test" and I dont think the reason is so that I can just throw her out. on the other hand I generally ignore her knocks unless she sees me which is very likely cuz I have a large front window and you can see straight into the main areas of my house.

Test is a very complicated concept. If you get (forgive my language) bird's po-p on your clothing do you have to walk around with it the whole day. No you have to do something about it. May be your nesyon here is to set up borders. Letting her come into your house not invited with her kids, letting them run wild while ruining your peace of mind and letting your child see your frustration is not something you have to allow. It is not your responsibility to chinuch her children. If they are hard, she should take chinuch classes and not give you "permission" to mechanuch her kids.
Sometimes the nesyon is to say no.
I know we read about tzadikim who let others walk over them. But I am sorry to say it, very few of us are in that category and if this effects your peace of mind, then you should say no to her. Plus why cause yourself to have hateful feelings towards her.
Also you are going to be doing a favor to her and her kids if you do not let them run all over her.
But remember IT IS NOT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO MECHANECH HER KIDS

techiemom

Sun, Jul 17 2011, 3:26 pm

amother wrote:

Maybe the test is to help her learn limits or manners? I used to have a very hard time with people taking advantage of me, but I found that advocating for my children helped strengthen me. So if you think of your child (who may be a baby right now but they do grow quickly!) as constantly seeing the example that the woman and her children are setting and whether you want them in their current state as potential role models, maybe that will help you deal with the woman, whether it is being straightforward about how she is affecting you, limiting her visits, etc.

Also, I'm curious... why don't you cover your windows? I would feel like she was spying on me Sad

ElTam

Sun, Jul 17 2011, 3:54 pm

It's not an either or (either you let her walk all over her, or you throw her out). You just have to be firm about setting boundaries.

1. If kids are running around with food, you say, firmly, "We sit down to eat food. If you don't sit down, the food will be taken away.

2. We don't hit in this house. If there is hitting, the playdate will be over.

Etc.

To them mom, I just think you need to say, "I am happy to visit with you between x o'clock and y'oclock, but other than that, I need to be with my family. I'm sure you understand." Say it with a smile, then stick with your guns.

The thing is, if you set rules and then let her/her kids break them, the responsibility is on you.

life'sgreat

Sun, Jul 17 2011, 5:36 pm

amother wrote:

I think the reason for this test is for you to learn to set up boundaries for yourself, your family (and for her). You are teaching your kids valuable lessons by setting up healthy boundaries. Your kids will learn that it's not ok to have others step all over them. And it isn't going to be a lesson just about guest. It'll teach them way more important things than just that. Being a doormat is a terrible thing for kids to learn. Kids don't differentiate between the above scenario and other, worse situations unless you teach them that one never needs to be a doormat.

I think you need to have an open talk with the neighbor and tell her that
a. you need to set up rules and boundaries as you feel it's getting out of hand.
b. you are ok to have her over at certain times, on your terms, and with your boundaries.

You need to be open about all the complaints. The food, the mess, the kids being wild (do NOT agree to discipline her kids and tell her so. She needs to take responsibility for them and if she can't, she needs to go home.), and the limits of time. Make rules such as - when my husband walks through the door, it's time to leave. Or give her a maximum amount of time or whatever fits your needs.

This doesn't have to be confrontational.

GreenEyes26

Sun, Jul 17 2011, 6:20 pm

amother wrote:

OP, what do you want us to tell you? You clearly enjoy being a martyr; you feel that you were somehow "chosen" for this "test" of having an annoying neighbor. Really? C'mon. She's an annoying neighbor with poor social skills and if you can't realize that your family at the very least deserves to have a quiet, calm house without a constantly annoyed, taken-advantage-of mother, then there's really nothing else we can say to you.

Depressed

Sun, Jul 17 2011, 7:54 pm

amother wrote:

Are you a nevia, maybe its a "test" to see if you will do right by your children...

amother

Sun, Jul 17 2011, 10:05 pm

op here, thanks again for the great suggestions, and many wise ones. im glad I posted this bec I get to see the situation from a dif perspective and I think a big issue is that im not assertive enough and perhaps this is why I was given this situation, to learn how to be more assertive.
Also, some have been surprised that I hit her kid. I know it may not have been the right thing to do but I was trying to protect my own child who has been hit numerous times by her kid and after trying dif. tactics, this was a last resort. Also, she has actually permited me to hit her son.

Merrymom

Sun, Jul 17 2011, 10:07 pm

amother wrote:

Because she's abusive, does not give you the right to be abusive. It gives you the right to ask her to leave.

Shopmiami49

Mon, Jul 18 2011, 7:39 am

Having been in a VERY similar situation with a neighbor in my building, it sounds to me like the reason she is so chilled out and lax in your home is because she feels comfortable enough to do so. She probably feels like she is welcome at any given time with her kids, and hey, why not? You feed them, discipline them, and she gets to sit and read and escape into her own world.

Most probably she is reading the situation wrong and assuming that what she is doing is ok b/c she hasn't heard otherwise. You really need to set down ground rules. I told my neighbor:

1) I know that you like to come over whenever you or your kids want, but you really need to call first to see if it's a good time. (Otherwise, her kids would come barging in and then it was impossible to get them out.)

2) Between 2:00pm and 4pm will not work for us to play since my kids are napping.

3) I serve dinner at 6pm and it's family time. And when my husband comes home, it is my time with him alone.

4) If your kids are hungry, why not do a potluck snack time? Bring along some things that they like and we'll all sit down at the table and they can eat. However, I really can not have any of the kids, not yours and not mine, running through the house with food and raiding the food closet.

5) We are on a tight budget and I would really appreciate it if you would ask me before helping yourself to things from pantry. Water is free, so help yourself.

It may be hard for your neighbor to hear all this, especially since it will be like hitting her out of the blue. Until now, she thought everything was fine, while in reality, you are on the verge of a nervous breakdown. If you choose not to say something, you will most probably end up erupting at some point, therefore sacrificing your friendship and at the same time, making your kids a sacrifice (for being beaten up).

I think you will feel much better after loading this off your chest. Remember, it's a big and scary step and may take some adjusting, but you will NEVER regret it.

yomomf

Mon, Jul 18 2011, 4:07 pm

I agree with all the various posts that said you should firmly set boundaries. Maybe sit down with your husband and decide where exactly you should draw the line based on what your comforts are.
Then come up with good firm lines to tell the children/mother.
Such as 'I'm sorry but I do not allow anybody to leave the kitchen with food'. Or 'that is not what I want to give out for snack. You need to ask before you take anything in this house'.
If they dont listen follow up with 'I said ___, if you cannot listen then you can't stay in this house',
While I agree that this is a test I think that in this case the test may be for you to set limits with derech eretz.
Hashem does not want us to be taken advantage of. If you are reaching the point of frustration that you come to hit someone elses child because you have had it and lost control it is time to reassess.
Hatzlacha!

mummiedearest

Mon, Jul 18 2011, 5:16 pm

op,

this reminds me of someone I used to deal with on a regular basis. she had no concept of social propriety, and I had a hard time dealing with her until I realized one very important thing: since she did not understand what was not appropriate, she wasn't offended by anything I might say to her that seemed rude to me. as long as I did not call her names, she was fine with what I had to tell her. so when I told her she had to watch her own kids/it was inappropriate for her to expect me to do xyz/she couldn't come without calling in advance, she was upset that SHE had done something wrong, not that I had said something rude. this was a big revelation for me, because I dealt with her on a daily basis and I was going NUTS. she didn't understand hints, and she took advantage of me without meaning to. so while it took me a while to get comfortable telling her EXACTLY what she was doing wrong, she was actually grateful when I started to.

you do need to talk to this neighbor. if you want to spend time with dh, you shouldn't have any interlopers there. and you need to be able to say to the kids, "moishy, if you don't stop that right now I will send you home." and then do it. why feel bad about sending them home if they didn't walk so far to see you? sending them home is not an inconvenience for them. just say to the mom, "shaindy, moishy is hitting my children again. you need to take him home now." there is nothing offensive about you saying that. and it will prevent you from ever hitting her kids again.

noshing on your chocolate? "shaindy, I need you to ask before you take the food from my pantry. I bought that as a special treat for dh. it was supposed to be a surprise."

oh, and who cares if she sees in your window? if she asks you later why you didn't let her in, just say you weren't up for company. also, ask if you can arrange playdates in advance. and make sure to make half of those at her house.

amother

Sat, Jul 23 2011, 11:49 pm

Had a similar situation with a friend years ago.

I'm glad I stopped letting her in. It was hard to do at the time, but her kids have gotten a million times worse, the older they've gotten. They are completely out of control, chutzpahdik, rude, wild kids, and I don't want them around my kids, being a negative influence.

I still get together with her occasionally, in the mornings, while my big kids are at school and she has just one or two little ones with her. But it's always a planned get-together rather than her showing up unexpectedly on my doorstep.

She used to show up basically pushing her way in, plop herself on my couch and let her kids destroy my house. So I started not answering the door, or, if one of my kids went to peek out the window by the door, I'd come to the door and apologetically explain that now wasn't a good time. It took a while, but she stopped coming by unannounced.

She still calls looking for playdates for her kids, and for a few years I would always find a reason for the playdate to be at my house so that my kids wouldn't be in a hefker environment. Sadly, I can't do that any longer, because even her preschool children are so wild that my kids' jaws drop and they look at me with shock when they see the way her kids talk and act on playdates at our house. :-(

You can still be kind to her, but in my opinion not at the expense of your children.

(I wish I knew what to do to help this lady. She has gone to a ton of chinuch shiurim I've attended, so it's not that she doesn't know what to do in terms of setting boundaries with her kids and teaching them derech eretz.)