Which grandmother to name for

amother

Thu, Aug 04 2011, 1:34 pm

I'm not sure exactly what my question is here. I'm just thinking about names and looking to discuss.

My mom's mother passed away when I was 9. I've had a name in mind for her for years already. I do have two cousins named after her, but they are 4th cousins and my mother feels like they don't really "count" and a direct descendant should be named for her.

My dad's mother passed away a year and a half ago. I was much closer with her because I knew her until I was 30 and we spoke as adults about marriage and children. I barely remember my other grandmother - not that I don't love her and want to name a baby after her. But my dad's mother has no one named for her. My parents are each pretty adamant that I name my next girl (I am newly pregnant b"H but am not planning to find out the gender) after their own mother.

To complicate (or maybe simplify?) things, I just realize last night (I knew it of course, but was not thinking about it in this context) that my dad's mother's name was Chaya and my mom's name is Chaya Sara. I know plenty of people would say those are not the same names, but I don't think my mother would be cool with my naming my daughter Chaya AT ALL, ESPECIALLY since she wants me to use her mother's name. Im not sure I would be comfortable with it either, or even with using it as a middle name (which is probably what we would do) - even though my mom goes by her English name. But I also don't want to not be able to name a child (even if it's not this one) after my grandmother that I was so close with.

I guess maybe some of you might say why not combine names and name one baby for both grandmothers but I don't feel comfortable with that either. I think the names should be separate for separate people.

Phew. Hope any of that was coherent. What do you ladies think?

SingALong

Thu, Aug 04 2011, 1:43 pm

If you are interested, there are rebbes who give guidance with what to name, and how to combine names, or names to add. You may want to do that if you are unsure .

As for naming your dd the same name as your mother, personally I would never do that. Its our minhag not to give a name if a living ancestor has that name. Kind of like my dh and grandfather have the same name, so I won't name after my grandfather. I I know Sephardim do name after living relatives.

overthehill

Thu, Aug 04 2011, 1:44 pm

c.c.cookie wrote:

If one grandmother was Chaya and one Sara, then I would understand not wanting to combine the two. But in this case, if you name one, you can never name for the other. So I would think that you should name Chaya Sara, and have both grandmothers in mind, because otherwise you can only name for one grandmother.

Her mother who is alive has a name that is Chaya Sara. If she follows ashkenazi minhag, she cant give the name Chaya after the other grandmom because her mother is still alive and her name is Chaya Sara.

shalhevet

Thu, Aug 04 2011, 2:15 pm

I really don't think you can use Chaya - yes, they are not technically the same name, but no one does that amongst Ashkenazim. It would be at best super weird, and at worst very offensive to your mother. yOu will just have to leave it to your cousins.

If you want to name after her, you will have to find some other way. Are you sure she only had one name? Did she have a name in English she was known by?

So I guess that "solves" your problem.

Otherwise I believe parents should choose their children's names and not ask for the baby's grandparents' opinions.

Chaviva

Thu, Aug 04 2011, 2:22 pm

How about naming the baby after your mother's mother, and then telling your father this:

"I would have loved to name the baby after your mom, you know how close I was to her and how special our relationship was. But you know, her name is the same as Mom's first name and I didn't think we should do that. So when we name after your mom, I'll have to use a different name that's similar. And I felt that if Mom sees that we choose to not name this baby after her mom for a name that isn't the same as your mothers', she'll feel REALLY bad. And I knew that you would understand. I love you Daddy." and give him a hug.

Or, you could ask your parent's rav what to do, and them blame it on him. You could even ask him to call your parents up and explain to them that you felt so torn because you wanted to make both of them happy, and that this is what he told you, and that hopefully they can accept the decision b'simcha because it's really a shame to bring tension and hard feelings to as wonderful a simcha as a birth of a child.

amother

Thu, Aug 04 2011, 2:38 pm

Thanks, all. You're right, the fact that my mother and grandmother have the same name makes it easy to choose the other grandmother's name. I just feel bad because I DO want to name a child for my other grandmother at some point. I don't really believe in choosing a different name that sounds similar or uses the same letter. Her English name was Helen - and my mom's name is Helene. And they have the same birthday, too. Weird, I know.

Chaviva, thank you especially for the great ideas.

OP

DovDov

Thu, Aug 04 2011, 2:49 pm

My nephew's second name is also my father's second name. It was his wife's grandfather's name, and very important to her family to name the whole name. He was told the minhag not to give a parent's name is for kibud horim, that you shouldn't be using their name lightly or in a scolding voice, and was told that if my father gave permission he could do it.

Now I'm not sure your mother would be mochel on her kavod if it means you'll be using someone else's name than her mother's, but it can't hurt to ask your rav about your minhag.

Separately from that complication, I think your children's names is first and foremost your decision. You should do your utmost not to cause strife in the family, but the ultimate decision is yours. If I were in your place, since either way you're pleasing one parent, I would sit down with my mother and tell her I had decided, and my decision was my father's mother's name for this child. I would be gentle but firm, and I would have the conversation well before the baby was born so there would be no dashed hopes at the kiddush.

I had a situation with similar conflicting expectations myself -- my father's mother, with whom I was quite close, had recently died and I was going to give birth during the first year. However, both of my in-laws are the only religious descendants of their parents (and in one case an only child) and both of their mothers were not alive. Now, DH was not close to either grandmother; one had died when he was very young and the other had had Alzheimer's most of his childhood. And though I was the first to give birth after my grandmother's petirah, I am one of several frum grandchildren who are building families. I sat down with my father, and explained that I understood it would mean a lot to him if we were to name after his mother, but I wanted him to know that my first daughter would be named for my husband's grandmothers. It was a hard conversation to have, but, IMO, much better than waiting till I gave birth, at which time who knew if I'd have the presence of mind to even mention it?

(Turned out I had a boy, so I guess waiting wouldn't have hurt, but now I don't need to worry for future pregnancies because he knows my first daughter will not be for his mother.)

Tal

Thu, Aug 04 2011, 9:19 pm

I guess I was lucky.

My parents and in laws both had some input from parents and decided they will not put their children through that! they told us and our siblings: you had him/her you will be calling the name more than anyone else, it is your problem - you choose a name!

Is there a nice way to tell all grandparents that this is YOUR baby, you will give a name that you feel you like and want to give. Be it after someone or not?

Then they will all be in suspense until you give a name!

amother

Wed, Aug 10 2011, 8:17 pm

OP here.

Don't know why I didn't think of this before. A girl can iyH be named after mom's mom. A boy can be Chaim.

Generally I don't like changing a name b/c I feel like it's not the same. DH suggested the name "Chen" and I said we might as well name her anything if we're going to choose Chen. Chen has nothing to do with Chaya.

At least Chaim has the same shoresh, and I guess it's the best I can do. I'm just sad that I wont be able to name a daughter after my grandmother. My parents' rabbi says you don't name a boy after a woman or a girl after a man, but after all, I am named after my grandfather and I turned out alright... (Though I don't know if I got any of his neshama....)

Thanks for listening. I guess this is more of an emotional quandary than anything else.