My teenage kids NEED things-alot!

odchai

Tue, Oct 18 2011, 6:48 pm

Not sure if there is a topic like this already. But does anyone else have trouble with their teenage kids always feeling like they're lacking things and need the latest gadgets?
My DH and I have decided that our DD does not need her own phone at this time (maybe she will later) but she's not understanding why we are being so mean and strict. And when I tell her that we can share mine, she refuses the offer and becomes very stubborn about it. I told her that if she really wants a phone now then she has her own money she can get one herself and pay for it herself, but right now we don't think it's necessary. My teenage son had his ipod that he got for his Bar Mitzvah stolen from him and we said we will replace it but I think we are getting him one like he had before and he is upset that he's not getting the latest version. I just hate this gimme-gimme attitude the kids seem to have that they should get whatever they ask for immediately and they don't even think about what they do have and how lucky they are for getting what they have. On the other hand I don't want them to feel deprived but this desire for things can be bottomless and never satisfied. There's always something out there they will want. How do we teach our kids to be satisfied? Also, it doesn't help that my kids live near cousins that do seem to get whatever they want whenever they want it. This is always a recurring problem in the house.

mummiedearest

Tue, Oct 18 2011, 7:30 pm

why are you replacing the ipod?

I ask because gadgets getting lost/stolen are a fact of life. did your son have it stolen at school? if so, why did he bring it to school? it's possible that it was stolen due to his irresponsibility, in which case replacing it is negating an important lesson he could have learned.

teens do behave like this. so do toddlers. my 3 yr old acts that way all the time. however, I explain to her that we don't NEED these things. they're nice to have, but mommy isn't buying them right now. I also tell her when things are too expensive. yes, I'm talking about a toddler, and yes, she wants hello kitty, not an ipod, but I suspect you just have to repeat the same message on your teen's level. if she complains that you're so mean, well, that won't help her get what she wants, will it?

as far as the cell phone is concerned, I would tell her that if she wants mom to buy it, mom gets to pick the model, and that's going to be that phone that allows two emergency numbers only and has no keypad. if she doesn't want that, she can provide herself with her own phone. you are more than generous to offer her yours on occasion.

zaq

Tue, Oct 18 2011, 7:47 pm

Op, your thread title tells a story. I thought you were going to say your kids outgrow their clothes so fast or the school demands they have things you can't afford to buy. Your kids don't "need" things--they **want** them, and you're getting sucked in to their mindset, reflected in your thread title claiming they need stuff.

You're the adult here: your job is to distinguish between your kids' needs and wants, to supply the former and to help them figure out ways to achieve some of the latter. It won't kill your kids to have a few things less than their classmates. Adversity builds character--though I question whether having the Model A electronic gadget instead of the Model A.1 gadget really qualifies as adversity.

Totally agree with mummiedearest, including the part about replacing ds ipod. Stuff gets stolen, and now would be a good time for ds to learn that a. one should not get too attached to material objects and b. one should care for and safeguard one's possessions. When ds is 30 and his car gets stolen, he'll be expecting you to replace it if you keep this sort of thing up.

You have a tough job ahead of you but do it you must. A pity you let your kids get away with the gimmes this far, but it's not too late to undo the damage. Let them whine, which they will. Let them slam doors and accuse you of stinginess, which they will. But stand firm lest your progeny turn into the kind of full-blown gimme monsters who have their parents cosign their mortgages and then default.

odchai

Wed, Oct 19 2011, 6:55 am

right esheschayil that was what I meant. I don't really believe that my kids need to have everything they ask for that's why I put the word in CAPS. I guess I should have been more clear about that.
The ipod btw was stolen from his hotel room over Pesach so it really was not his fault. And we do want to replace it and intend on doing so but what I dislike is his attitude that it's our responsibility to take care of this because he has "suffered". It's true becoming an adult one must learn that this kinds of things happen and it's not the parents that are going to be able to or must step in to right the situation. Really the kids are going to have to learn that it all comes from Hashem but we might have to wait till they grow up more to learn that better. I just hate this "magiah li" I-got-it-coming attitude. This is what I struggle with the most. What to tell the kids. Actually since we live in Israel my kids probably do get more than their classmates/friends. But they are not comparing themselves to those friends, like I said before my kids have cousins that live nearby that get (it seems) whatever they want whenever they want it and that is most difficult for my kids. It's very close to home. Plus my ds has this personality where he is not satisfied with what he has and is always seeming to need more. How far are we supposed to go with that? In the end he does get what he asks for but we determine when that happens, but it doesn't seem to satisfy him.

odchai

Wed, Oct 19 2011, 6:55 am

mummiedearest

Wed, Oct 19 2011, 11:05 am

odchai,

I definitely got the sarcasm in the title. here's my question about the ipod-- why is he not replacing it himself? presumably a boy who received an ipod also received some money for his bar mitzvah. it may not have been his fault that it was stolen, but neither is it yours. he is old enough to buy it himself.

as for the cousins, we have that too. (again, preschoolers.) I have told my kids we don't need something just because cousin has it, and that if mommy decides to buy it, it will be for a special occasion. meanwhile, you can point out to your kids that the ONLY kids who have those things are their cousins, and that their classmates are doing fine without.

how about sitting down with your kids and coming up with a specific amount of their own money that you agree they can spend on the gadgets they want? come up with some rules about these luxuries (and they need to be told that these are luxuries). 1) it breaks/gets stolen, parents are not responsible for replacing the item. 2)loan it to friends at the risk of losing it. 3)no bringing gadgets to inappropriate settings, like school (I would have included hotels in that category, btw). 4)no using gadgets to make others jealous 5)parents have the right to censor contents 6)they want to buy something out of their budget, they have to earn the money themselves, parents will not contribute.

there is nothing wrong with them wanting things or even owning them if the parents are not expected to do the purchasing. obviously you decide what you want in your home, but anything you're not against in principle should be available for them to purchase by themselves, responsibly. you can buy them nice items for their birthdays or chanuka (if you do chanuka gifts), but I'd limit it to those times only. if you want to "spoil" your kids at random times, you can buy them a song off of itunes every once in a while, but not a whole ipod.

there are times when I find it incredibly hard to limit what I buy my kids. I see all the things I wanted as a kid and have the urge to go shopping. however, I do think I'd be doing my kids a disservice by buying them everything. my kids know by now that if we go to a toy store, they may buy a book each (usually for 99 cents). that's it. anything else we buy is for bday presents, either for them or someone else. I have no problem with them owning a huge library, but toys need to be limited. my daughter's favorite thing to do is look at toy catalogues and tell me she wants EVERYTHING. but I tell her no, or I'll consider buying ONE thing for her birthday. that's it.

amother

Wed, Oct 19 2011, 11:27 am

From the gemara, "he has 100, he wants 200." This is human nature.
I don't have children that demand anything, because they are taught in school from an early age that it is wrong to ask parents for anything, that parents are not required to feed and clothe and shelter a child after that child can take care of himself, (age 7 for a boy) so whatever we do for our children, is a chesed.

The children appreciate every little thing. I do believe in spoiling, to a degree, which means I get my children whatever I can afford according to my means. On a daily basis, I cater to them and their wants and needs. That is what I am here for. Maybe if I had a larger family I would not find it possible, but Hashem blessed me with a medium sized family, and He gave me everything I need. So whatever I have, I share with them.

They are really not demanding at all, BH, because they know that 99% I will answer in the affirmative. So they are raised with the attitude that whatever they need they will get. So they are always satisfied.
Also their parents set the example by not always being busy with the latest of anything. Parents are busy doing mitzvos and other important things, not buying toys for themselves.

Barbara

Wed, Oct 19 2011, 12:24 pm

I'll be different.

If I could afford to replace the iPod, and if it was stolen notwithstanding that the teen had taken good care of it, I would replace it. I'd also give him the option to upgrade, but at HIS expense, not mine.

As to the teen with the phone, I'd sit down with her and ask her why she feels that she needs a phone. Frankly, I think that most teens, and especially teen girls, are best off with phones for safety reasons. Then we'd try to reach a compromise. Maybe we'd spring for a prepaid phone with limited minutes, and she'd pay for extra minutes if she wanted.

I try to remember that just because I don't *need* it doesn't mean that its not of great importance to my child. Phones and music are often very important parts of teens' lives, and less so to their elders.

suzyq

Wed, Oct 19 2011, 1:23 pm

amother wrote:

Are you serious? There are so many statements in your post that I find incredibly difficult to believe that I certainly am not surprised that you are anonymous.

mltjm

Wed, Oct 19 2011, 1:33 pm

suzyq wrote:

amother wrote:

Are you serious? There are so many statements in your post that I find incredibly difficult to believe that I certainly am not surprised that you are anonymous.

I wouldn't be surprised if she said she also lived in la-la land Twisted Evil

mummiedearest

Wed, Oct 19 2011, 2:48 pm

Barbara wrote:

I agree, these things can be very important to teens. that's why I'd rather they work for them. they may really want the items, but these things are still NOT a necessity. kids are capable of working towards an important goal.

about phones: I don't believe in them unless there is an obvious need. if my teen's route to and from school involved, say, a train stop in a bad neighborhood, I would provide the phone, but it would be a very simple one. and I would hold the teen responsible for any texting charges. as much as teens want phones, I hate the fact that phones have taught kids to ignore social propriety. if my kid wants the extras, s/he can pay for them.

I don't mind spoiling my kids occasionally, but I don't give in to demands. getting an expensive present for your children should be done when you feel it is a good time for it, not when your kids effectively throw a tantrum over it.

odchai

Sat, Oct 22 2011, 8:02 pm

mummiedearest, we are replacing the ipod because the credit card company gave us back money on the items that were stolen (AMEX is the best!)
Regarding telling the kids that just because their cousins have things doesn't mean they need them might work when they are younger (in fact it does work better when I tell my younger kids that now) but when they get older it definitely gets harder because teenagers begin to see that others especially adults DO get things that they want and if they don't get them then they buy them for themselves. Yes, my son has money of his own and he has told me that if I won't get him something then he'll just buy it himself but 1. I don't want him to waste his money on every latest toy that's out there and 2. he still needs to learn that although there are adults that buy themselves things being an adult means that one must make choices and one doesn't need everything they want.
Basically, I would love to hear how other parents of teens deal with these issues.

amother

Sat, Oct 22 2011, 9:22 pm

mltjm wrote:

suzyq wrote:

amother wrote:

Are you serious? There are so many statements in your post that I find incredibly difficult to believe that I certainly am not surprised that you are anonymous.

I wouldn't be surprised if she said she also lived in la-la land Twisted Evil

I am amother because of various reasons, one of them being too many people know who I am IRL.
But I live in Brooklyn. Everything I write is true. Read Dr. Sorotzkin's advice in the Sukkos editions, about how he says that parents are created only to provide for their children's needs. We are here to give, and they are here to take, as much as is possible. I totally agree with him. However, it takes a certain amount of confidence for children to believe and truly feel they have everything when they really don't. Just the fact that they know I will say yes most of the time, makes them ask for so much less, or almost nothing. You may not believe me, but it works, and always has!

Fox

Mon, Oct 24 2011, 2:28 pm

The problem raised by the OP is certainly familiar in my household, and I've given it a lot of thought over the years. My conclusion is that it is caused by a "perfect storm" of factors:

Increased Consumption in the Family
It's always interesting to me that so many parents want to take a hard-line position on supplying their children with so-called luxuries -- while they enjoy those luxuries themselves! When we have smart phones, iPods, or whatever the latest gadget or fashion is, we are sending a message: This is a good thing to have. Why are we then surprised when our kids "need" whatever they see us using? While adults certainly have different needs than teenagers, it is impossible to have two entirely different sets of standards for adults and teenagers in the same family. If you have it, your teenager will want to have it. You may be able to dance around this for a little while with discussions of age and responsibility, but ultimately, the message will be sent.

Increased Consumption All Around
This is the "everybody's got a pony" problem. When a critical mass of teenagers really does own a particular gadget or fashion, it becomes significantly harder to maintain a firm line. This is engendered by the attitude of, "It's my money, and if I'm paying tuition and giving tzedekkah, I can do what I want." Sure, sweetie, as soon as it becomes your money, you can do what you want. This also goes for gifts from grandparents, etc. When the community ante is raised, it is raised for everyone. Bar and Bas Mitzvah gifts of electronic devices worth hundreds of dollars are completely inappropriate. Now, try selling that to the veldt!

Limited Earning Power
This, IMHO, is the most aggravating of the problems. Depending on your community standards, we have developed a society in which virtually no teenagers have real, money-making, part-time or summer jobs. Kids go to camp until they're 22 years old, where they're paid a pittance and/or rely on tips at the end of the summer! While girls may pick up babysitting jobs, working in a store, restaurant, or office is considered "untznius"; boys, likewise, are in yeshiva much of the year, and are also discouraged in many communities from part-time work.

This last problem makes me craziest, because outside the frum community, it provides a way for teenagers to learn basic work skills (a challenge for far too many frum teens!); earn money for savings and luxuries; and experience the challenge of allocating limited resources to unlimited desires.

This extension of childhood far past not only the historical precedent but even past the standards of the surrounding non-Jewish society leads to huge numbers of problems: whether we're talking about the unrealistic expectations of young marrieds; the behavior of grown children; the issue of "support" . . . all of these are tied into a system that delays adulthood so long as to put our kids at a disadvantage when we finally expect them to "grow up."

I don't know the answer to this problem. I've spoken with many experts in chinuch about the issue, and they agree that I'm "right" in theory, but they accurately point out that exposure to the world through workforce participation can lead to problems, too. So I really don't know . . .

I do know that I try to have more rachmones on my kids when they think they "need" something or other. I try to remind myself what it's like to want to buy something yet have virtually no practical way of earning the money for it. I found it humiliating when I was a teenager, and I was thrilled when my parents finally let me get a job. But things have changed a great deal since then, and my teenagers do not have the same opportunities. I'm actually proud of how entrepreneurial they are in the face of such restrictions.

The current system, though, seems like cruel and unusual punishment -- as if we were saying, "We expect you to function as adults, but we won't allow you access to any of the resources adults generally have." And then we wonder why so many young married couples find it difficult to cope . . .

mltjm

Mon, Oct 24 2011, 3:50 pm

odchai wrote:

mummiedearest, we are replacing the ipod because the credit card company gave us back money on the items that were stolen (AMEX is the best!)
Regarding telling the kids that just because their cousins have things doesn't mean they need them might work when they are younger (in fact it does work better when I tell my younger kids that now) but when they get older it definitely gets harder because teenagers begin to see that others especially adults DO get things that they want and if they don't get them then they buy them for themselves. Yes, my son has money of his own and he has told me that if I won't get him something then he'll just buy it himself but 1. I don't want him to waste his money on every latest toy that's out there and 2. he still needs to learn that although there are adults that buy themselves things being an adult means that one must make choices and one doesn't need everything they want. Basically, I would love to hear how other parents of teens deal with these issues.

I'm not the parent of a teen yet, but just my $0.02, it sounds like maybe you are protecting him too much from making his own mistakes in order to learn these adult lessons. Maybe if you split his money up, half or 2/3 or whatever into an untouchable account and the rest he can spend as he wants it will a)be a more manageable, limited amount of money that a teenager will recognize can run out b) you will not have to stress about him using allllll his money on gadgets c)once the money's gone, it's gone, so when he's stuck with an iPod touch AND and iPad and no money (just for example) he will learn the lesson of how redundant it is to have too many gadgets.

I also agree with what Fox wrote.