Q and A about Chaseedishe life

gryp

Fri, Mar 24 2006, 11:09 am

maybe they just dont want everyone to know that theyre satmar- to keep more anonymous.

The walking apart minhag is interesting, I saw it a few times in Israel.

do you all mind tell us some more about different things you do? I really think its fascinating.
someone brought up eating the same things for shabbos always.
how about the levush that diff groups wear?
what is your connection to your particular Rebbe as a woman?
interesting things your Rebbe does with/for the Chasidim?
do your groups have specific special Niggunim like Lubavitch does? is other music looked down upon?
what do girls learn in school (does satmar really not learn from open sfarim)?
which food hechsherim do you keep?
whats the Yeshiva schedule like for mesivta/beismidrash? (I mean the time it starts in the morning and when it ends)
are there any specific Sifrei Chassidus that Chaseedishe men learn?
do you learn mussar?

embarrassed

sorry, as you can tell I have a lot of questions. embarrassed

I hope none were insulting or offensive.
feel free not to answer whichever you dont want to.
(and I probably have more questions Twisted Evil

these are just the ones I could think of off the top of my head)

Mama Bear

Fri, Mar 24 2006, 12:44 pm

GR wrote:

someone brought up eating the same things for shabbos always.
how about the levush that diff groups wear?
what is your connection to your particular Rebbe as a woman?
interesting things your Rebbe does with/for the Chasidim?
do your groups have specific special Niggunim like Lubavitch does? is other music looked down upon?
what do girls learn in school (does satmar really not learn from open sfarim)?
which food hechsherim do you keep?
whats the Yeshiva schedule like for mesivta/beismidrash? (I mean the time it starts in the morning and when it ends)
are there any specific Sifrei Chassidus that Chaseedishe men learn?
do you learn mussar?

Don't worry about asing so many quesitons Smile

What's your question about the levush?
About Rebbes' - I can only tell you about Satmar. When the Rebbe was well, the only connection I had as a woman was to go in for a bracha on the day of my engagement, and I stood far off to the corner. The Rebbe does not 'see' women the way the Lubavitcher Rebbe did. NOw that he's not well unfortunately women dont really get to go in.
We do have our own niggunim but not like Lubavitch does - we listen to all sorts of music. Every home has their own standards. Some only allow belz, bobov, and other chasidishe music in. Some families allow MBD, Miami Boys Choir, Avraham Fried etc. in too. I listen to frumspace radio and Nachum Segal radio all day so whatever is on, is on...
Girls do not learn from text but learn a VARIETY of topics crucial to being a good Jewish wife and mother: Halacha, hashkafah, parshas hashavua (in yiddish), navi (in yiddish), peirush and biur tefillah, Yehadus (yomim tovim etc), kollel inynaim (middos tovos), historia, Mishlei, Ani Maamin, Tehillim... I can go on and on...
Hechsherim differ from family to family but Hisachdus Harabbanim (CRC) is universally accepted, and many of the other chasidishe hechsherim such as Volova, Nirbater, Udvari are widely accepted.
I'm not sure what the men learn - they learn gemara obviously but we have our own brand of sifrei chasidus - Divrei Yoel, VaYoel moshe, etc. Which yeshiva schedule do you mean - for 15 year olds or 18 year olds? My 17 year old brother is out of the house from 5 am to 10 pm every day....
What else?

gryp

Sat, Mar 25 2006, 9:02 pm

Quote:

Don't worry about asing so many quesitons

Thank you.
embarrassed

Quote:

What's your question about the levush?

this was in regard to all diff Chaseedish groups, namely, who wears what? Sorry embarrassed

, I just cant tell the difference and I think its fascinating.

Quote:

About Rebbes' - I can only tell you about Satmar. When the Rebbe was well, the only connection I had as a woman was to go in for a bracha on the day of my engagement, and I stood far off to the corner. The Rebbe does not 'see' women the way the Lubavitcher Rebbe did. NOw that he's not well unfortunately women dont really get to go in.

do you ever have a chance to ask for a personal bracha without going thru your husband or another male relative?
ie. are you mekushar to the Rebbe as yourself, or does it go by each family?

Quote:

Girls do not learn from text but learn a VARIETY of topics crucial to being a good Jewish wife and mother: Halacha, hashkafah, parshas hashavua (in yiddish), navi (in yiddish), peirush and biur tefillah, Yehadus (yomim tovim etc), kollel inynaim (middos tovos), historia, Mishlei, Ani Maamin, Tehillim... I can go on and on...

the subjects that you didnt mention that you learn in Yiddish- do you learn them in English?

Quote:

I'm not sure what the men learn - they learn gemara obviously but we have our own brand of sifrei chasidus - Divrei Yoel, VaYoel moshe, etc.

do women/girls learn any chassidus?
is mussar a topic generally studied? (I ask because I once met a Bobover girl who was learning a mussar sefer at the time, I think part of school.)
I dont mean to be nitpicky embarrassed

and I dont want this to come across with any hidden messages, please, please dont read into what im asking, im really just plain curious.
what kind of topics do your sifrei chassidus talk about? are they deeper explanations to the Torah? do they talk about Hashem and the world around us?
are these sefarim ones that are generally easy to learn? does it take many years to get thru them, or are they easy-reading?
what language are they written in?
how many sifrei chassidus do you have? I know you named a few, but looking around your own homes, approximately how many do you think you have?
how much of the day is spent learning Sifrei-Chassidus as opposed to Gemara?

Quote:

Which yeshiva schedule do you mean - for 15 year olds or 18 year olds?

both.

Quote:

My 17 year old brother is out of the house from 5 am to 10 pm every day....

wow! impressive!
I'm trying to imagine setting my alarm clock for 4:30 AM!
what is seder like for them early in the morning? mikvah every morning? learning before davening? what time is davening? what kind of breaks do they have, ie. for meals?
do they have seder on Shabbos?

again, im sorry if my questions come across as offensive in anyway, im just ignorant. embarrassed

Quote:

my husband showed me in a Sefer that it recommends for Tznius that couples not walk next to each other in public. Not everyone holds by this, (let me know if you're interested and I'll get you the name) but it's a respectable minhag.

I learned the same thing, it is a very respectable minhag.
how many newly married couples have you noticed who the husband just walks much faster than the wife (unintentionally) and the wife is racing to keep up? LOL

ive noticed it quite a lot. in fact, we used to joke that we keep this minhag. LOL

amother

Sat, Mar 25 2006, 10:25 pm

Quote:

the subjects that you didnt mention that you learn in Yiddish- do you learn them in English?

I'm not Mindy but also learned in Satmar. Do you mean the secular studies? If you do, we learn Secular subjects just like any other school (maybe a little less, but basically the same)
Integrated Math-Algebra-Basic Math-Computers-Typing-Science-Economics-Civics-Social Studies-Grammar-Vocabulary-Literature-Poetry/Writing-History-Geography. Hope I didn't leave out anything.

What do you mean by Mussar? Certain subjects we delve deeper into while others not as much but yes most of them are taught to us on deeper level. I am not sure if these are considered mussar but we learned these:
Mishlei, Pirkai Avos,Ageres H'ramban, Ageres H'gra.
We did learn from a Yiddish Mussar Sefer which I can't remember the name but written by "R' Hillel Kolomeyer".
We learnt Borchi Nafshi and Tehilim on a deeper level which was beautiful.

Mama Bear

Sat, Mar 25 2006, 11:05 pm

FOR GR:

SOme answers to your questions.

1) For men, they all wear long or 3/4 jackets for the most part, some wear half jackets. There are 3 kinds of hat: Flat beaver hat, high beaver hat, and 'shtufene' hat. The more 'frummer' types wear the flat beaver hat. My father, brotthers, and brother I nlaw wear that hat but my husband doesn't. White socks with pants pulled up and tied with a string is also 'frummer'. Women is basically, lower to higher level: open shaitel, covered long shaitel, covered short shaitel, front shaitel only, shpitzel, tichel only.

2) No. The Rebbe does not conduct conversations/yechidus with women the way the Lubavitcher did. We are basically 'ezras nashim' chasidim; we go to the simchos, tishen, davening, etc if youre a big chasidiste. but there are 1000s of satmar chasidim and few women go - only if family circumstances allow it and youre a real 'farbrente chasidiste'.

3) I really do not know much about bochurim's schedule nor about what they learn, as my oldest child is seven months old Smile

. Sorry.I think there is no seder on Shabbos if you dont sleep in the dorm (my brother sleeps home), but bochurim make their own chavrusas on shabbos afternoons.

4) Yes, my mother actually gets up at 5:30 to wake up my brother. sorry - hes out of the house from around 5:45, not 5:00.

5) yes, we learn it all in Yiddish. We have an English curriculum too - History, Arithmetic, Bookeeping, computers, Geography, Science, English, Current Issues, First Aid, etc. etc. No regents bh!!!

6) I'm sorry, I know NOTHING about sifrei chasidus. We dont learn sifrei chasidus in school nor mussar, and my husband doesnt share with me what he learns, so I can't answer you. sorry Smile

ILOVELIFE

Sat, Mar 25 2006, 11:31 pm

GR wrote:

do you all mind tell us some more about different things you do? I really think its fascinating.

I find it fascinating too!!

GR wrote:

someone brought up eating the same things for shabbos always.

We generally eat the same stuff each shabbos though I try to vary what kind of chkn I make. We're makpid to eat chkn soup with lokshen. We eat at least one kugel and if there's more than one sefer torah taken out that shabbos--we eat that amount of kugels. We also have some sort of compote Friday night and no fish shabbos day.

GR wrote:

how about the levush that diff groups wear?

I guess I have to come right out and say it: I'm karlin-stolin. Our Rebbe wears a shtreimel but as was the minhag in the 'alta heim'-- the chassidim DON't wear shtreimilch. I don't say that there isn't yeridas hadoros and that the younger generation doesn't have some with shtreimilich but generally we don't. The men wear long reklach, up hat and short payos behind the ears. Beards are a must.

GR wrote:

what is your connection to your particular Rebbe as a woman?

Here's where we differ from many chassidusin. We women can go in by ourselves. There's also no gabbai in the room when anyone goes in. The rebbe has an h ךr each day where we can call and he picks up and answers questions. We also can fax 24 hours but have to call for an answer as the Rebbe generally doesn't write back. Our Rebbe lives in EY so when he comes here it's a major simcha and we go in as a cpl to get a brocha and discuss any issues. I also go to tish when the Rebbe's here.

stem

Sat, Mar 25 2006, 11:35 pm

1. What on earth is a shpitzel? Very Happy

mindy wrote:

I'm sorry, I know NOTHING about sifrei chasidus. We dont learn sifrei chasidus in school nor mussar, and my husband doesnt share with me what he learns, so I can't answer you. sorry Smile

2. You mentioned before that there are men who look at women as belonging in the kitchen and giving them odd looks if they want to hear some kind of Torah discourse at the Shabbos table. Honestly, even if I were to grow up in that type of environment, I would never tolerate it and feel stifled and trapped. Are there any girls in Satmar who want more out of life than changing diapers and cooking? Is there any type of outlet of an intellectual girl, or does your society ignore these needs? Are there any girls who go off the derech because they are lacking the spiritual learning, chassidus and mussar which give a deeper meaning to life and the things we do?

(This can happen in any "sect", just inquiring of Satmar because it's the focus of this discussion.)[/quote]

ILOVELIFE

Sat, Mar 25 2006, 11:52 pm

GR wrote:

do your groups have specific special Niggunim like Lubavitch does? is other music looked down upon?

yes we are known as the 'singing' chassidus. many popular niggunim played at chassunos are stoliner niggunim. The Rebbe has a mesora to keep the niggunim as private as possible so they don't get abused and that's why we don't market tapes. (there is one disc but it's sold exclusively to stoliners)

GR wrote:

what do girls learn in school (does satmar really not learn from open sfarim)?

Satmar has a diff style learning than we do. We learn in seforim inside. We are also taught a huge amount of hashkafa and chassidus.

GR wrote:

which food hechsherim do you keep?

It's hard to pinpoint hechshairim but we do have our own (very expensive ) shechita that most are makpid on.

GR wrote:

whats the Yeshiva schedule like for mesivta/beismidrash? (I mean the time it starts in the morning and when it ends)

cheder is 9-4 and from like 7th grade it's 8- 5 and mesivta and Bais medrish is 7am- 10 or 11 pm. Most boys also come in for 'faren davnin' at 6. Mikva farin davenin is a must. Davening in stolin is a huge issue. The Rebbe is VERY makpid that the men daven ONLY in stoliner shuls. We have our own nussach and the men scream by davening.

GR wrote:

are there any specific Sifrei Chassidus that Chaseedishe men learn?

yes. Bais Aharon and I forgot the other seforim.

GR wrote:

do you learn mussar?

In the form of chassidus. Not your classic mussar sefer.
The men have groups where they 'farbreng' and have a 'zitzing'. Each age group is divided into 'kitos'and they learn together and discuss self-improvement once a week. Bochurim have get togethers with their 'Achroiyi" (responsible for their spiritual issues). The bochurim also learn 'ohr hachayim'on the parsha every week with their Achroyi.

ILOVELIFE

Sun, Mar 26 2006, 12:00 am

GR-

Our women are VERY involved in the chassidus but generally do not learn our sifrei chassidus inside. Most of the stoliner teachers will give over the lighter parts of the sefer to the girls in the course of a lesson on parsha , hashkafa and the like.

The seforim are in Loshon kodesh with some yiddish quotes.

In the back of all our siddurim we have printed main minhagim for the year. It goes according to months.

Our women dresss quite simply for the most part. plain shaitel, and regular suits on shabbos. We don't care for looks too much. Again, there are exceptions but generally we're neat but simple looking.

We speak yiddish with a Russian dialect as that 's where our chassidus originates from.

And just one more thing that sets us apart-- Our boys learn in yiddish and have a terrific yiddish but they talk to each other in English! Yes, our men have a terrific english and in camp they play basketball with reklach on!! (mind u there's a joke about those games: the winning team is the one whose captain had good kavonos by mikva that morning!!)

stem

Sun, Mar 26 2006, 12:21 am

amother wrote:

Why would we be lacking in spiritual learning?? We learn mussar and lots of other things that gives us a deeper meaning to life.

I hope I didn't imply that you are lacking in spirituality! I was simply wondering where you get your spirituality and feeling of meaning in life if you don't know about mussar or sifrei chassidus. I guess this question is directed to mindy since she's the one who said that men look at you funny if you want to hear some divrei torah and:

Quote:

6) I'm sorry, I know NOTHING about sifrei chasidus. We dont learn sifrei chasidus in school nor mussar, and my husband doesnt share with me what he learns, so I can't answer you. sorry Smile

amother

Sun, Mar 26 2006, 12:29 am

MIndy wrote that? I guess she was thinking maybe you were referring to a specific mussar sefer. But of course we learn mussar. We don't have a subject called "MUSSAR" but it was brought into thru the other subjects we learnt. We also learned Mishlei, and The Mussar Sefer from R'Hillel Kolomayer just to give you an example.
Our learning is combined with the subject itself and then bringing in thru the subject mussar and deeper thoughts For example when we learned Parshas Hashuvia or Navi or Pirkei Avos we learned it first in simple form and text and then delved deeper into it and the teacher would bring in certain topics into the subject such as mussar and chassidus and deeper meaning of Hashem, the Torah and the world around us.

amother

Sun, Mar 26 2006, 1:31 am

Downsyndrome Well said Thumbs Up

.

I am a Satmar Girl although I didn't marry into Satmar. Anyway.......I can't get over some of the myths. I guess I was brought up to think that each community has their good things to look up to and we should always think highly of every jew. My parents stressed this alot.
About our spirituality. Every lesson included Mussar. Like someone above said (chaya I think) We don't have a Specific Mussar Lesson but Mussar and learning deeply is brought into every lesson. I'm shocked that others really think about our secular studies level. We certainly don't learn Genetics and don't take Regents but everything else we learn the same as anyone else. About Marriages, well, I certainly don't agree with Mindy because I haven't met such people although I guess there are some of them in our community, Love is something between couples and not communities but I won't go into that since others have said it better including some Modern Orthodox women and others.
Mindy you are one intelligent women!!! Sorry I don't agree with you on everything but then again it makes sense since there are many different types of us. But you certainly have dismissed some of the craziest myths about us and I am forever thankful to you for that!!

amother

Sun, Mar 26 2006, 1:42 am

Oh and like downsyndrome I also like to paint my nails LOL but it is not really done in our community but nobody gets to see it anyway just my husband.
I also wear full make-up but try not to wear too much eye make-up just some eyeliner, eyeshadow, no mascara usually. I wear longer uncovered wig, and go by the basic tznius rules of our community like skirt length and no see-thru stockings.
My husband and I do go out bowling and such but we wouldn't go out to a movie. My husband is my world!!! We learn Sefer Chofetz Chaim together and Sefer Noam Elimelech. It is a very deep sefer and my husband loves to learn it and then he tries to explain it to me.