Q and A about Chaseedishe life

Mama Bear

Fri, Apr 04 2008, 12:45 pm

why cant a couple go out to eat? of cousre they can! If they can find a babysitter, that is. Dh and I used to eat in restaruatns plenty before we became parents. now we enjoy eating at home more than the expense and hassle of going out to do that.

Maya

Fri, Apr 04 2008, 12:57 pm

We also eat out often, and so do all of my siblings.

amother

Fri, Apr 04 2008, 1:40 pm

sleepless-n-ny wrote:

I think that the chasidishe woman are usually the least percentage to get divorced, most have great communication with thier spouse and are generally happy.

Divorce rate is irrelevant, since your circles may have different expectations of marriage than mine.

louche

Fri, Apr 04 2008, 2:17 pm

Squash wrote:

[: It does say somewhere (not sure of exact wording, or where, but could look it up) "do not engage in excessive conversations with a woman" .

Pirkei avot Ch. 1 Mishna 5.

אבות פרק א משנה ה
יוסי בן יוחנן איש ירושלים אומר יהי ביתך פתוח לרווחה ויהיו עניים בני ביתך ואל תרבה שיחה עם האישה
באשתו אמרו, קל וחומר באשת חברו. מכאן אמרו חכמים כל זמן שאדם מרבה שיחה עם האישה גורם רעה לעצמו ובוטל מדברי תורה וסופו יורש גיהנם

Yossi ben Yochannan the Jerusalemite says: Let your home be open wide, and let the poor be as members of your household, and don't converse excessively with the woman. It was said of one's wife, how much more so with his freind's wife. From this the sages concluded that so long as a man converses excessively with his wife, he causes harm to himself, loses the opportunity to learn Torah, and ends up inheriting Gehinnom.

louche

Fri, Apr 04 2008, 2:19 pm

Mama Bear wrote:

(who matched, who hatched, and who detached, for instance Very Happy

) .

I LOVE IT!!! Did you make that one up?

flowerpower

Fri, Apr 04 2008, 2:27 pm

yeah we also eat it by ourselves as couple time, not with other couples

First Lady

Fri, Apr 04 2008, 2:58 pm

Quote:

Is this something one sees not in chassidic circles too? Sometimes, but within chassidic circles where many couples cannot do certain activities that other groups permit, it can be very hard to find things to do together that both enjoy. After all, recently we have had threads written by the same chassidic woman (she said so) about not wanting to watch movies with her husband at home and what to do about that and apparently, replacing that with other activities is not easy for her to do, and she also wrote about the difficulties in getting her husband to open up.

I absolutely don't view seeing movies as doing something together with the husband. You're not spending quality time together focusing on each others you're just watching something together and the focus is on whatever you're watching.
So this amother didn't know what to do about movies and also happens to have a DH who has a hard time opening up, but I don't get the connection .
There are many more productive ways to spend time with one's husband. Eating out, Playing board games, shmoozing over tea etc......
And these are things any couple can do!!!

Quote:

I think that the chasidishe woman are usually the least percentage to get divorced, most have great communication with thier spouse and are generally happy.

Divorce rate is irrelevant, since your circles may have different expectations of marriage than mine.

Both comments above are not accurate. In all circles there are those with happy marriages and sadly un-happy marriages. Those that have great communication with their spouse and those that don't.

We all have basically the same expectations of marriage (unless we follow the Koran ch"v). Actually each couple has their own. It's not a community thing.

You know at first it bothered me when I'd read all these ridiculous and twisted comments and observations that people make about Chassidim but my DH always tells me "what do you care" you are happily married and who cares what anyone else thinks"
I think he's right. And anyway no matter how much we try to put things into the right perspective, people are only interested in what they want to see and hear anyway, so why bother. I just don't know why people have to be this way. I think people who can't face the fact that Chassidishe life is beautiful, uplifting and spiritual and in addition to that have the most wonderful and happy marriages, meaning we have of both worlds, are simply jealous.
That's my conclusion. Unless you can prove otherwise.

amother

Fri, Apr 04 2008, 3:02 pm

Quote:

That said, are there many women here who have the custom of eating separately at home?

Fox, I don't think this is an accepted minhag anywhere. I've never heard of it.
I'm Satmar Williamsburg. I have tons of family in Tosh and have never ever heard of it there either.

Maya

Fri, Apr 04 2008, 3:50 pm

amother wrote:

Quote:

That said, are there many women here who have the custom of eating separately at home?

Fox, I don't think this is an accepted minhag anywhere. I've never heard of it.
I'm Satmar Williamsburg. I have tons of family in Tosh and have never ever heard of it there either.

I have heard this being done in homes of Rabbanim who eat with their talmidim while the wife eats in a separate room with daughers/dils/friends.

Or it might happen when there is a full table of 'fremde' men, and the womenfolk are more comfortable eating separately. But I don't think it's something that's done on a weekly or daily basis.

Fox

Sat, Apr 05 2008, 11:31 pm

Thanks for the feedback, Maya and amother!

Mama Bear

Sat, Apr 05 2008, 11:37 pm

louche wrote:

Mama Bear wrote:

(who matched, who hatched, and who detached, for instance Very Happy

) .

I LOVE IT!!! Did you make that one up?

Nah, I didn't.

as for the question about the families eating separately - if it's your own family, then NO!!! Why would there be separation in your OWN FAMILY? sometimes, when the family has really grown very big, like for instance KE"H my ILs have 8 married hcildren and 35 grandchildren, and the oldest boy is already 15, so when the ENTIRE family gets together for melaveh malkah, we might sit in sep rooms cuz there simply isnt room!!!

Squash

Sat, Apr 05 2008, 11:56 pm

fox, it is rare. definitely not the norm, even by very chassidish, to eat separately.

about two weeks after we got married, we were invited to dinner by my dh's brother and his wife. I was VERY suprised that the men (dh and his brother) and the women (sil and myself) ate in two separate rooms. I was raised VERY chassidish and it was still surprising to me.

it's a really ultra, ultra, ultra chassidish thing.

but even when we sit together, say at my mil's house, we don't join the men conversations. the women shmooze with each other, and the men shmooze with each other. (in my parents house it's different. somehow, by my in laws, the men and women bil and sil, don't converse)

Squash

Sat, Apr 05 2008, 11:58 pm

[quote="chocolate moose
IIRC, in the Gemara the work eating is even a euphism for relations.[/quote]

this is true.

Squash

Sun, Apr 06 2008, 12:05 am

just want to also explain the thing about some chassidish men not eating out (in general, nothing to do with the "together with the wife" thing). many really serious, ehrlich chassidish men will not eat in restaurants for one or both of the following reasons:

1-they don't trust "mass produced" food and hechsherim. one of my bil even brings along his own food when he goes to a sheva brochos cuz he doesn't rely on most cateres/hechsherim.

2- they feel it is not proper/correct to eat in public. "ha'ochel b'shuk domeh l'kelev". and they believe it is not refined/becoming to be seen eating in public.

now. as far as couples who don't know/can't figure out/ haven't yet learned how to spend time together to strengthen their relationship. I would venture to say that this may be the case in ANY circle. not necessarily chassidish.

it's a skill that some have and some need to be taught/learn.

a good marriage usually doesn't "happen". it's constant work.

although I will agree that maybe chassidish couples need more time to learn that because they are not used to 'socializing' with the other gender.

I hope I'm making some sort of sense here.

Fox

Sun, Apr 06 2008, 12:14 am

Mama Bear wrote:

we might sit in sep rooms cuz there simply isnt room!!!

Not sure, but I have a feeling this might have been the case with the family who hosted my friend. They have a fairly small dining room, but they have a room off the dining room where seforim are kept -- kind of like a mini-beis medrash. If they had lots of guests, it probably made sense to seat the women at a table in the "beis medrash"

Squash wrote:

we don't join the men conversations. the women shmooze with each other

DH gets annoyed if the women are chatting while the men are discussing something "serious" -- I'm not talking about divrei Torah, just lomdishe conversations. I guess he thinks we should just listen and improve our minds. I'm not against improving my mind -- though it might be a lost cause -- but I'd prefer to be able to relax with my daughters and women guests a little more.

amother

Sun, Apr 06 2008, 12:16 am

Quote:

although I will agree that maybe chassidish couples need more time to learn that because they are not used to 'socializing' with the other gender.

That's not only a Chassidish thing. Neither do the Litvish or Lubavitch Chassidish. But otherwise nicely explained.

Mama Bear

Sun, Apr 06 2008, 12:25 am

my fahter in law, a very ehrliche yid, has never stepped foot in a restaurant, not even for a sandwich. I dont think my MIL ever bought takeout or pizza... ever.

chayitty

Sun, Apr 06 2008, 12:29 am

when I went to a school interview for my son one of the rules was no going out to eat..so thats where I took it from

Fox

Sun, Apr 06 2008, 12:48 am

Mama Bear wrote:

my fahter in law, a very ehrliche yid, has never stepped foot in a restaurant, not even for a sandwich. I dont think my MIL ever bought takeout or pizza... ever.

That is incredibly admirable! I wish I were on that level! Of course, maybe it would be easier if I were a better cook . . .

chayitty

Sun, Apr 06 2008, 1:37 am

mama bear....is that for kashrus reasons??...is it tznuis?..I just dont really understand