I don't think this is a common problem but...

amother

Wed, Jan 25 2012, 3:29 pm

I come from a big family and I come out somewhere at the top. We are a few married daughters and each have 1, 2, or 3 kids. But each time one of us have a baby my parents feel they have a right to give an opinion on the name- not only a right but if we don't ask they will get angry and insulted. By my most recent baby I offered the name to my mother being that she doesn't have a father and she told me she preferred I name for her grandfather this time. That's what we did and I felt that I had pleased my parents only to get yelled at a few days after the bris from my father that I had only approached my mother, leaving him completely out of it. (This is not a shalom bayis between my parents, my father did say that had I asked him he would've told me to give the name we ended up giving- he was just angry that we didn't include him too.)

They believe that if we want to please them by naming after a deceased relative, instead of choosing a name on our own , we should just tell them to pick ...and then present us with their choice...and if we don't want to give that name for whatever reason they get very upset. They feel as though they give and do everything for us and this is the one thing we could reeciprocate with...
It's a real problem, feelings are hurt, spouses are upset and my parents are never happy. Does anyone else have a similar scenerio?

amother

Wed, Jan 25 2012, 5:18 pm

Wow. My parents are extremely overbearing and pushy (and my ILs too for that matter) and never ever have they gone to this level. Very over the top. Just wow.

From where do they get the idea that things should be this way? Did their parents do this to them? Are they very controlling in general? How do your sisters deal with this?

Faigy86

Wed, Jan 25 2012, 5:36 pm

In a very respectful way, you need to be explaining to your parents that the choice of the name for your child belongs to you and your husband. You are naming a child for the merit of the deceased, or so that the child will have the good middos, or so that you will feel that you are transmitting a family heritage to your child. It is not a personal favor. It should never involve them making the decision and you need to explain that while there are many things you are willing to do as favors to them, the name of your child isn't one of them. You always hope that they will be pleased with the decisions that you make, but it is not about them at all!!! They may not be happy to hear that. You may want to speak to a Rav, just so that you can say that you've asked for guidance and have backing. They may be upset by the next child, but it is not ok for them to be controlling your decisions in that way.
Hatzlacha - it is a tough spot to be in.

eta - while the previous poster's advice of understanding where they are coming from can be helpful so that you can feel compassion and not anger to them, you cannot therapize (I think I made that up) your parents and you will need to work with the limitations that they have, not assume that you can change them by understanding where they are coming from.

naomi2

Wed, Jan 25 2012, 5:38 pm

I agree, this is not normal and overbearing behavior. my parents and inlaws give me every.thing and they would never even give their opinion on a name, let alone feel entitled to choose! discuss this with your husband. decide what you will do when it comes time to name future babies. its your baby and the name shouldbe chosen by you and your husband alone.

observer

Wed, Jan 25 2012, 5:53 pm

amother wrote:

They believe that if we want to please them by naming after a deceased relative, instead of choosing a name on our own , we should just tell them to pick ...and then present us with their choice...and if we don't want to give that name for whatever reason they get very upset. They feel as though they give and do everything for us and this is the one thing we could reeciprocate with...
It's a real problem, feelings are hurt, spouses are upset and my parents are never happy. Does anyone else have a similar scenerio?

Naming your children is really not about pleasing your parents. There are many ways children can make their parents happy, but that is not the purpose of naming your children. I'm sorry that you have to deal with this- it sounds really tough. I have heard of other people who have issues like this, so you're definitely not alone.

And any imamothers reading this who have married kids and don't get it: Naming their children is really none of your business. You had your turn when you named yours- now it's their turn.

of course it's ok to point out a name while still leaving the full choice to them. (e.g., btw, great aunt so and so never had anyone named after her, but no presssure, whatever you want)

amother

Thu, Jan 26 2012, 3:36 am

Observer, I even think letting kids know that 'so and so' never had anyone named after her, or casually mentioning so and so's full name, in case u were thinking of them (hint hint), is also wrong. Stay out and let them decided.
I recently had a baby and had decided to name after a relative who had not yet been named after and a day or two after the birth I got a phone call from another relative, as well as my mother, letting me kiwi that no one has yet named after her and it's been so many years, and IM NOT TELLING YOU WHAT TO DO, BUT...to me that part was the worst- oh yes you are telling me what to do! From the moment others got involved and suggested this name, it took all the 'cheishek' (desire) out of me to give this name, which I originally felt so strongly for. All of a sudden, I was doing others a favor rather than naming my child after someone I felt I wanted to name for...I struggled so much until I finally came to a decision and did eventually give that name but it took me a while to get to it and while I'm really glad I did it, I honestly don't have that excitement that I did when I planned on it before she was born...
Parents and in laws -keep out of this, it's the parents ruach hakodesh, it's not a time to do favors or to be 'good kids'. Let the parents decide alone.
Op, you need to either sit down with them or somehow make it clear-at a time when it's not relevant bec, that will take the edge and stress off, just casually sit down and let them know that u need to be able to make these decisions on ur own, casually throw in they had their turn now it's urs, and that the next babies iy"H should be without their input, let the, know how much aggravation and shalom bayis issues they are causing , the py may not even realize as their caught up in their own thoughts...

amother

Thu, Jan 26 2012, 4:11 am

Neither my family nor my husband's has a tradition of naming after/ for relatives. Nevertheless, my in-laws think they're picking the name for our baby but have "generously" told us that if we have a boy and we we want to give two names, we are free to pick whichever second name we like (although suggestions were offerred for that too.)

My husband decided thatthe best way to handle them was to just nod in a non-commital way so they drop the topic, then when the baby is here we'll just go ahead and give the name we have chosen.

What I'd prefer to do and what I suggest you do is tell your parents that you've decided not to discuss names with anyone in advance but you'll let them know which name you've chosen after the birth

amother

Thu, Jan 26 2012, 8:28 am

They sound like my IL's. They made our life horrid. Took the joy out of the joyous time.

They said things like we do everything for you and all of the like too.

You could ask them to pamper their feelings, whether you would or wouldn't otherwise, but in the end its your child, you give the name. If you know all the names they would like, and whom to name after would be most meanngful for them, thats really all the info you need. Asking them each time is more about coddling their issues.

Bottom line is, its sweet to ask if you know its so important to them but its your child to name at the end of the day. I think the "problem" is their attitude and not so much the names, as you'd probably end up choosing the same names without their input (maybe in a different order but after all is said and done) but they shouldn't be stepping so far over their boundaries to treat you so not like grown adults.

banana89

Thu, Jan 26 2012, 9:35 am

op here:

Thanks everyone for validating what I thought was not such a normal scenerio , let me just reply to some suggestions here.
Firstly my parents say that this is exactly how they named their children-they believe that 'we don't name our children but our grandchildren'...In fact they had such a scenerio when one of my brothers were born (he is now 12) - they really were planning on giving a name after a relative that meant a lot to them but then a grandmother kind of forced them to name for her father...my mother never really got over that (especially because she had another 2 girls after that and no boys!) but instead of learning from the story to keep out of her childrens' decisions, she uses it a lesson to us that its the grandparents who are essentially chosing the name and not the parents.
Anyway after this last story (with my father reducing me to tears over naming this past babyand clearly telling me how to name a future baby IYH) my husband spoke extensively to a rav who basically told him to name whatever name he (and I) want to give- obviously with tact and sensitivity to my parents but he told him he doesn't have to listen to them. Now I know when this happens my parents will be very insulted, I'll most definitely hear it from them...but I think it's something that has to be done and hopefully will pass without ruining the realtionship too much.
My sisters all feel the same way as I do, although not all of them are as sensitive to my parents' feelings as I am and so it doesn't bother them so much to hurt them in this way. I guess they'll each ask their own rav when they get to that point...
Let me just clarify that as a whole they are generally not such overbearing parents- we do have a great realationship with them- it's just in this instance where they feel so strongly.

Ruchel

Thu, Jan 26 2012, 10:13 am

I do not see what is wrong in mentioning someone not named after, or even in proposing to name after him. I am thankful for it. It is a huge zechus and some rabbanim hold kibud av vem extends to ancestors. Parents did have their turn, but maybe in their times so and so was alive. Or they didn't have enough children.

Now, they have no right to get angry or choose the name. About choosing the name though, this is my personal opinion. There is the story of how the rebbetzin Chaya Mushka was named, the older rebbetzin CM passed and her parents got a telegram from the father saying, if the little girl isn't named yet she should be CM.
There is also someone in all for the boss (ruchama?) who has a baby and asks her father how he should be named!

I DID name my children to please. To please the deceased, to please my parents, to please Hashem through the two aforementioned ones. Would I have chosen these names if I had been without family or if they had already been named after? Not most of them, though I LIKE them all. Will I get to use my favorite names? No. Big deal. Naming is about more than a nice sound to me, though if I had fewer names to give I would definitely also use my fav ones. (I also like preserving "weird" names through naming LOL

)

spring13

Thu, Jan 26 2012, 1:13 pm

This kind thing makes me SO mad! Just because they were pushed into using someone else's choice doesn't mean that they get to do it to you. This is not a tit for tat situation. How backwards is it to say that you get to name your grandkids but your own kids? I'm sorry you're dealing with drama over this.

Break the cycle. Make your own choices and do NOT discuss them with anyone else. If someone asks what you're planning, tell them you haven't decided yet, or that you and DH can't agree, that kind of thing. It's one thing to ask for ideas or input yourself; unsolicited advice in this kind of situation just results in bad feelings all around.

When baby naming comes up in conversation, change the subject. Avoid the topic. Have a few vague off-putting answers in your head, but don't even mention your "short list" if someone asks - not even to someone who's just curious, if you think it might end up getting back to someone who will then try to bother you about it.

As a parent, naming your kids is your job, and your job alone. If you CHOOSE to ask for ideas or input then ok - but at the end of the day, it is still YOUR CHOICE. And you should be able to take pride in choosing a name that you love, that is meaningful to you in whatever way it is.

ellie23

Thu, Jan 26 2012, 7:38 pm

I had a very toned down version of this situation. there were suggestions made but I did whatever the hell I wanted. I carried my babies for 10 months, worked hard to bring them into this world, dreamed of them all my life so when they finally arrived I gave them the most beautiful names I could think of- and I was goodnaturedly made fun of for it (they have uncommon, unique names). im not one to back down when I feel stringly about something and I guess everyone knew it...maybe thats the key..teach your family that this is off limits and they will have no choice but to listen.