Not hosting a woman who dresses provocatively

amother

Tue, May 01 2012, 7:37 am

A different thread got me thinking.

I know a couple who are not invited out much. I'm not crazy about the husband (has a big ego, involved in a little bit of dirty money) but the wife is really nice, very sweet. Doesn't speak the language of where we live that well, I know how that feels. They don't have family here from either side. I know how that feels too. Normally I make an effort to invite people like that...but the woman dresses really provocatively. Short skirts, high high heels, tight clothes, and longggggg shaitel. She is also very pretty. She is also the nicest, sweetest person. She doesn't walk with her hips swinging around. I think she just enjoy s dressing stylishly -I don't think she feels that she is immodest. Her style is classy and not vulgar but still...
I feel bad never inviting them for any of our Shabbos meals, barbecues, kids birthday parties, etc. I also just can't handle the way she dresses. Don't get me wrong, I don't dress amazingly tznius myself, I love fashion and heels myself.. if anything I think she looks great ...just don't want her around my husband and kids.. Am I wrong?

simba

Tue, May 01 2012, 7:42 am

No you are not wrong. I have been through this discussion with my DH before.
You cannot control what goes on outside but, you do have a choice whether to bring it into your home.
My DH is simply uncomfortable with provocatively dressed women in the house, and that is not fair to him.
Yes, it can sometimes be annoying to me. If I had teenage boys then it would be easier for me.

ewa-jo

Tue, May 01 2012, 7:57 am

Nothing wrong. I have a daughter and when she's older, I wouldn't want her around nice frum ladies who dress like streetwalkers. Of course, we all know that it's more important what this woman is on the inside (you've said, she's a perfectly nice person) but I wouldn't want my daughter thinking that it's ok to wear stiletto heels and tight skirts because Mrs. Ploni does.

Is there a non-judgemental way to explain it to her.. that you are trying to set a certain standard in your home and she's welcome when she complies.

curlgirl

Tue, May 01 2012, 8:11 am

ewa-jo wrote:

Is there a non-judgemental way to explain it to her.. that you are trying to set a certain standard in your home and she's welcome when she complies.

No there isn't! And please don't!

I don't remember reading that the woman asked for mussar, fashion advice or an invitation. Leave her alone!

Tzippora

Tue, May 01 2012, 8:15 am

OP says she dresses classy, not vulgar. Not "like a streetwalker". Just that she's making OP insecure. I haven't heard anything about OP's DH having an issue.

Frankly, you're excluding an immigrant who doesn't quite fit in, and you're doing it because she's pretty. Yes, her skirt could be longer, her sheitel could be shorter, but if she didn't look as good as she does, you wouldn't really care (it sounds like shes pretty close, though not exactly, wearing what you do by your own description). She probably doesn't even realize she doesn't fit in.

This isn't about her or her clothing or your DH or daughter(s) - this is about you feeling frumpy next to her. That's fine, we all have women who make us feel short, stumpy, chunky, whatever! Being a grownup means getting over it and not pretending you're motivated by a desire to be the tznius police. Here's a start: "Hey DH, you know, Mrs X is really pretty and it makes me feel insecure about myself. But she's nice and I'd like to invite her over - if we do, just know that I'd appreciate some extra attentiveness during the meal/conversation... I know it's silly but it would reassure me."

I'd be more concerned about the woman's husband's dirty money. Our priorities are clearly messed up.

I'm taking myself out of this conversation before I say something I regret.

shabbatiscoming

Tue, May 01 2012, 8:17 am

ewa-jo wrote:

There is no way to tell something this without it being condescending and not sound like mussar and this woman did not want any of this.
Please dont give someone mussar that did not ask for it ewa-jo.

Personally, I would have no problem with inviting such a lady. My husband works in the outside world and sees such things every day. He is a big boy. As for children, as they get older and realize that we dont dress like that, I would explain that there are different ways of dressing and doing things in this world, thats all. Nothing dramatic.

MaBelleVie

Tue, May 01 2012, 9:03 am

You say she dresses provocatively, and then you say she is classy... Well, which is it?

If you feel she is provocative in her dress, you're not required to invite her into your home. If you're having a group over, like for a birthday party, I wouldn't exclude her though. You can also invite her over when your husband is not home, or make plans to meet her somewhere else. No reason you can't be friends with her!

Tue, May 01 2012, 9:35 am

I agree with the real problem being her husband and I really feel for this woman.
I would get together with her as a girlfriend and not as much a couple friend. It can be very lonely living in a community being married to a guy that no one really likes and because she is pretty the women dont like her either.

If you can be a real friend to her please do, but if you cant accept her for who she is then do her a favor and leave her in peace.
We expect our children to look past the externals when a person is overweight, has a birthmark, or crooked teeth, or wears hand-me-downs, why cant you look past what she looks like?

Dont forget there are very few s-xy looking eighty year old women out there, but when you are both eighty she will still be a nice lady who could have been a good friend.

amother

Tue, May 01 2012, 9:38 am

I agree with ewa-Jo, I wouldn't invite if I felt uncomfortable. Of course, it depends if the outfit is provocative or just stylish. Big difference. I'm not sure from op which this is exactly. Intentionally dressing in a provocative manner is just that. Intentional. There is a frum woman on our block who dresses that way (tight spandex tops, stiletto heels, long sheital), we are all friendly. I can't say I really enjoy having her over, however. Once my nonjewish neighbor asked me if I really wanted her around my husband..... I know she is not after anybody's husbands!! Nor do I think my dh is after her, gforbid. Just that choosing to dress that way kind of says "I enjoy having men look at me and respond to me s-xualy- the fact that it is your husband is fine with me!". And why wouldn't my dh be turned on? She does look hot, as my neighbor pointed out. To each her own, but that doesn't mean I am going to jump for joy for the chance to go through it in my own house all afternoon!

ewa-jo

Tue, May 01 2012, 10:00 am

amother wrote:

but the woman dresses really provocatively. Short skirts, high high heels, tight clothes, and longggggg shaitel.

Maybe I got a different picture in my head than everyone else, but the way OP describes her, it seems a little over-the-top for a frum woman... any woman actually.

Tue, May 01 2012, 10:06 am

@ewa-jo

but OP also wrote

amother wrote:

Her style is classy and not vulgar but still...
<snip>
Don't get me wrong, I don't dress amazingly tznius myself, I love fashion and heels myself..
if anything I think she looks great

ewa-jo wrote:

Maybe I got a different picture in my head than everyone else, but the way OP describes her, it seems a little over-the-top for a frum woman... any woman actually.

black sheep

Tue, May 01 2012, 12:40 pm

if anyone makes you uncomfortable for any reason at all, you should not host them. you don't have to decide if the reason you are uncomfortable is right or wrong.

that said, I personally don't mind having a couple over if that woman is very pretty, or even untznius. but I do mind, very much, when any woman, pretty or plain, is flirty with my dh in my own house! and yes, this has happened. it is disrespectful, and that woman never gets invited again. period.

now depending on the level of provocativeness of the dress, I might consider that in itself to be flirting...

oms18

Tue, May 01 2012, 2:37 pm

"No you are not wrong. I have been through this discussion with my DH before.
You cannot control what goes on outside but, you do have a choice whether to bring it into your home."
I totally agree with this...you have to do what feels right in your home...

marshmellow

Tue, May 01 2012, 2:51 pm

only if she gave me reason to believe she is flirtatious with my husband etc otherwise I would want to be her friend because she's a nice person. to be honest I would probably be more unwilling to have her husband than her, I don't like people with big egos and it makes it hard for me to see them in a good light. the way someone dresses doesn't affect my view of them. how come this question was asked twice? Smile

SJcookie

Tue, May 01 2012, 3:08 pm

IMO you're not wrong at all. It could subconsciously damage your marriage and children (perhaps not severely, but damage is still damage). It's up to US (the women) to make sure that our home, husband, and children are holy and on the right derech.