Emotionally disturbed 5 yo?

amother

Fri, May 18 2012, 8:28 am

Can a 5 year old be diagnosed with an emotional problem like anxiety, Bipolar, szchizophrenia, etc? how? If so, what do you do about it?

No one will tell me what's wrong with my son... He can be so sweet, but also incredibly aggressive. He's had all kinds of evaluations but all they did was rule out anything on the autism spectrum, Sensory disorders, giftedness and learning disabilities. Beyond that, people have said he's too young to learn more about right now. It could be ADHD. It could be many other things. But he's too young to be tested or medicated.

Everyone keeps telling me to focus on behavior modification so that he stops beating up his teachers, parents, friends, siblings, parents etc. especially since he'll probably be stronger then me by next year... But no one will tell me what's wrong with him... Sad

amother

Fri, May 18 2012, 8:58 am

I just read your other thread.

Has he had any sessions with a child psychologist? For therapy purposes, not for diagnostic. Sounds like he has a lot of rage - my DS was also like this.

If he is constantly hitting people your problems are going to escalate rapidly if he doesn't get help. Sure all kids hit now and then but this sounds like a daily event. Behavior modification is great - when and if it works but a very defiant child doesn't always cooperate.

What do you do when he hits you? Have you found anything that works? Is he remorseful?

A good child psychologist may be able to help you.

Hug

amother

Fri, May 18 2012, 12:54 pm

amother wrote:

Read this;

The Explosive Child

OP here,
I did read it. This is exactly him. It really helped and made sense. So to answer the previous amother's question at the same time, those methods DO work with him, most of the time. The only issue is that it's sort of a pre-emptive strike so you have to know what's going to set him off. Which sometimes I do, and sometimes I don't.

My only issue with the book is that it's a method to a behavior. But it doesn't EXPLAIN the reason for the behavior. So my issue is in my expectations of him. Can I expect him to be able to control his temper bc the problem is behavioral? or is it something he can't help like a chemical imbalance in his brain? I mean, if this is the case, it doesn't seem fair (and quite honestly, it's a huge waste of energy) to punish him for doing something he can't help...

I mean, the book is awesome. But WHY am I having these issues with him????

5*Mom

Sat, May 19 2012, 3:09 pm

amother wrote:

Read this;

The Explosive Child

If that's what you came away with I think you missed something important. Ross Greene explains that children often behave the way they do b/c they don't yet have the skills necessary to behave more adaptively. They need to be taught skills. I think you are assuming that when a child doesn't behave the way we want or expect, that means that there is necessarily a disorder. This is not so. There is so much for children to learn and each child learns at his own pace. Doesn't necessarily mean there is a disorder. Follow Greene's program, identify triggers and pathways, identify the skills he needs to deal with his triggers and teach them. It won't happen overnight, but as far as understanding the why of his behaviors, this is as good as it gets. You may want to look for a therapist such as a Speech Language Therapist who is trained in this method.

granolamom

Sat, May 19 2012, 11:36 pm

5*Mom, you said that very well!
I just want to add that when you're following Greene's program you need to look for improvement in tiny tiny increments. you know what they say, seek and ye shall find. and its important that you do recognize tiny accomplishments because accomplishments foster further accomplishments, both for your child and for you.
its not an easy program, at least not for me. it was hard to let go of my old mindset and overlook what I had deemed 'important issues' for the time being. but it works. and by 'works' I mean it helps teach the child flexibility and how to compromise. it doesnt make them into easygoing compliant children.
also, want to say that I got the impression that this book was mostly geared for older kids, so you might have to get creative in applying it to a 5 yo (the basic premise would remain the same though, its just that most 5 yo's lack the insight you can expect from (or teach) an older child)

chani8

Sun, May 20 2012, 3:03 am

It can be frustrating that the doctors found nothing to diagnose. Are you unable to get psychological services without a diagnosis?

You asked what other issues could cause this, besides a chemical and genetic component. Other 'reasons' for a child to be like this are difficult personality type, language problems (especially in expressive language), or environmental factors (such as what has happened in his life).

Do you understand his personality type, so that you are parenting in 'his language'?
Does he have expressive language issues? A child who cant express himself when frustrated will explode like a volcano.
Did anything happen to interupt his bonding to his care giver in the first few years of age? For a child with attachment issues, punishments are traumatic and they can react like a cornered animal. They can also react aggressively to loving interactions by impulsively smacking during a hug.
Did he have any traumas that you know about? Is he a fearful child? A traumatized or fearful child will panic when triggered (or punished) and may react with fight or flight and animalistic rage as if their life depended on it.

I had an explosive child (never read 'the book') and behavior modification worked up to a certain point, but I felt a wall was still in the way and couldn't understand the 'why' behind it all, and was ready to think of my child as a sociopath. Then we found out he had been through traumas when he started acting out and hurting others, and after 6 sessions of EMDR trauma therapy, our by then 11 yo son (with a difficult personality and expressive language issues) got over his rage and we didn't need behavior mod anymore. So, don't rule out trauma. And even if if seems like a small trauma to you, if it's big to your child, then it would explain the underlying 'cause' of your child's explosive anger.

And if you cannot afford EMDR trauma therapy, read a book on it and then do tapping or eyemovement on your child, yourself. It is a simple method used in post war zones by relief aids, whereby the kids are taught to give themselves a butterfly hug and tap alternating hands on their own shoulders. This works very well when the child is 'in their anger'. Also, a parent can simply, from front or behind, start tapping on the child's shoulder while the child is having a 'melt down' and just say validating and then reassuring words. A hysterical five year old might even do the eye movement, by watching your finger move from side to side. I've had several young traumatized and unattached children come thru my home and this has worked well, B"H. (But "home EMDR" is lite, and not forced. If your child is older and/or had a major trauma, use a professional.)

amother

Sun, May 20 2012, 10:14 pm

Wow this is a lot to think of...

The only trauma I can think of is maybe his bris healed wrong and when he was 9 months it had to be fixed. After which we had to keep pulling the skin down after every bath (which would FREAK HIM OUT) Unfortunately, it healed wrong again and we had to fix it again at 15 months and at 2.5 years. It's fine now but I wonder if that did anything to his head????

But really he's always been sensitive and intense, even as a baby, he looked like he wanted to jump out of his body, and was always intensely happy or intensely upset. When he got a little older, and I would put him in time out, he would cry, but it wasn't an angry cry, more of a hurt feelings cry.

His teachers, my parents, my best friend, and his swim teacher all have told me they think he's depressed. I don't see it, but so many people have mentioned it, I wonder... Even his psychologist has mentioned it...

When he has a tantrum, I don't think he's really... there... He just gets unreachable. There is no reasoning with him. I just have to restrain him until he calms down. And even then, I have to be touching him, and he has to be looking me in the eye, and then maybe, just MAYBE whatever I need to tell him will go through to his head... After many repetitions...

Sigh

grace413

Mon, May 21 2012, 3:48 am

amother wrote:

But really he's always been sensitive and intense, even as a baby, he looked like he wanted to jump out of his body, and was always intensely happy or intensely upset. When he got a little older, and I would put him in time out, he would cry, but it wasn't an angry cry, more of a hurt feelings cry.

Sigh

If he's been like this since infancy chances are good that a lot of his behavior is due to his inborn temperment. I strongly suggest reading "Raising Your Spirited Child" by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka. It's not a cure-all but has a lot of good info on temperment and how to deal with intense children. Also, addresses the issues of parent-child conflicting temperments.

Good Luck.

chani8

Mon, May 21 2012, 4:15 am

I hear your deep concern, OP. I would also ask, that besides the bris traumas, is there a history of mental illness in the family? You sound afraid about dafka mental illness.

About the bris issue, those definately qualify as traumatic experiences.

I just bought a book by Heather Forbes about raising kids with emotional problems.

Dare to Love by Heather Forbes

She talks about the physiological response to fear and stress that a child who has had trauma or attachment break or other emotional problems, would exhibit. In my brief glance through the book, it seems she advocates not punishing during their outbreaks/meltdowns, but instead, trying to calm their nervous system down, by reassuring them they are safe and loved with the point being that they are in a fear reaction. When they stop their fear reaction (rage, fight, flight, freeze(shut down)) then later you can reason with them about their problematic behaviors.

The author also has a nice website with online courses: http://www.beyondconsequences.com/
I have just started the book, but thought I'd pass it on to you as it seems worth a read. It addresses the fears you have about your son, also.

TwinsMommy

Mon, May 21 2012, 7:13 pm

how can a 5 year old be too young to be tested/medicated for adhd? my daughter by age 5 had her autism and adhd diagnoses completed and started medication. I'll be putting her on a second med in a couple of months---- technically her first med isn't specifically for the adhd behaviors--- but still. I had no trouble getting diagnoses done, both medical and educational. For the ETR, the adhd is an OHI classification but my daughter got autism and OHI anyway since she also has autism.

But with lots of rage, there might be ODD involved--- for Reena, the ODD was secondary to her autism and included in her autism diagnosis--- we didn't tackle the ODD with the adhd people. But we have one psychiatrist in charge of all meds and the psych is working now on the ODD and will start medicating the adhd in a couple of months right before kindergarten.

If someone is refusing to start a diagnosis process, go get a second opinion. You might be limited with medication options (the neurologist won't TOUCH stimulants before age 6, for instance, but the psychiatrist will).... but there shouldn't be a problem with diagnosis.

amother

Tue, May 22 2012, 10:11 am

chani8 wrote:

You sound afraid about dafka mental illness.

Well if it's not sensory, autism, learning disability, or speech, then maybe it's something deeper like mental? (that was just where the train of tought took me... I don't have the faintest clue what other possibilities are out there...)

As for it running in the family, I know Anxiety runs in Dh's family. BIL has it pretty bad (undiagnosed, but you can see it a mile away) and my 6 yo nephew has it so bad, he had to be medicated and is doing MUCH better on it. However, DS's symptoms are TOTALLY different from theirs...

TwinsMommy wrote:

how can a 5 year old be too young to be tested/medicated for adhd?

Where I live, there is not ONE doctor who will diagnose a 5yo with ADHD. Let alone prescribe medication for it. Everyone always says he needs to be in first grade and be having trouble for there to be even a reason for evaluation.

granolamom

Tue, May 22 2012, 1:14 pm

amother wrote:

chani8 wrote:

You sound afraid about dafka mental illness.

TwinsMommy wrote:

how can a 5 year old be too young to be tested/medicated for adhd?

OK, I'm going to say this with love because I've been there and I know no one ever wants to hear this, but not every emotional issue is mental illness. not everything can be blamed on a 'diagnosis' or 'disorder' and not everything can be 'fixed' with therapy and medicine.
sometimes a child's chronic misbehavior is their way of communicating to us that they have unmet needs. now I am not saying you arent a good mother, you definitely sound like a loving and on top of things mom. but we all miss things sometimes (I do often).
I would set aside two weeks of real careful observation. watch what he's doing and note the circumstance, without trying to intervene. just collect your data. notice how others respond to his behavior (including you and your dh). then try to analyze all of this. how does the misbehavior benefit him? what is he getting from it? what do you think he's trying to get? is he getting enough time, attention and power in appropriate ways? are there too many expectations of him? has he been placed in a role and maybe there is some self fullfilling prophecy going on? what is going on in school with the other kids? how do they view him? how do they expect him to behave? is he struggling with a masked difficulty (hearing, eyesight,etc)? generally speaking, 5 yo's know that aggressive behavior is wrong. they need either the tools or motivation to stop. but if there is an unmet need, neither tools nor motivation will help.

I know how frustrating it is to know that something is wrong but to have no idea what it is. I've been down a very long road and have learned a couple of things along the way. the number one thing is this: you are wise beyond your belief. Hashem sends you what you need to know (sometimes via therapists, but if no therapists have answers then know that Hashem will send you what you need to know some other way). daven for help then go deep into your heart and focus on strengthening your relationship with your child. you can't go wrong there. and hopefully in the interim you will stumble upon solutions.

gigi

Tue, Jun 12 2012, 8:31 am

I didn't read through all the responses, but my almost 5 year old son sounds like yours, and also like the description for the book, the explosive child.

he also has not been diagnosed with anything specific. we have tried several different parenting classes /professionals. currently are working with a social worker. we have tried, gluten free /sugar free/ food coloring free diets. with minimal success.
non of the professionals I spoke to have had experience with a kid like him. I have felt that they all just don't "get it"

I was recently going to see a very expensive physocologist with him, but I decided to try one last cheaper option as a last result.
I heard of an energy healer who lives near us. she does chranio sachral therapy, bach remedies, and energy healing.

since seeing her,my son has had a huge improvement in behavior.
he is still 5, he still gets mad over trivial things.
but he gets over it more easily. he stopped, destroying the house for no reason.
his tantrums, which used to last b/w 1-2 hours., have almost dissapeared.and when he does have one, we can usually talk him through it. before he was unreachable.

the healer said he seems fine in every way, except for a lack of energy in the lower colon, and an excess energy in upper right of his abdomen.
that excess she said can cause the anger issues.
she moved the energy, and prescribed a bach remedy.
he did regress, and become a lot more emotionally needy. maybe a bit weepy.
but that is so much easier to deal with than wild anger.

call me a quack if you want to.
I don't care , at least my son is manageable now b "h. Smile

anyway, just sharing my experience, you can take it as advice if you want to.
good luck.