What are parents thinking . . . ?

Log in / Sign Up

List of Forums + New Post Recipe Box Usergroups Following My Posts Bookmarks

Private Messages Advanced Search Rules New User Guide FAQ Advertise Contact Us

Forum -> Parenting our children -> School age children

1 2 Next

View latest: 24h 48h 72h

Fox

Thu, Jun 21 2012, 4:05 pm

I usually try to avoid general venting and complaining, but I'm going to give in this time . . .

My teenage DD runs a successful backyard camp, and each spring the calls start flooding in from mothers who want their daughters to be hired as counselors, assistant counselors, assistants to the assistant counselors, etc. My DD generally has a policy that she won't hire anyone whose mother calls first, but one particular girl slipped in -- her mother is acquainted with DD and the woman was savvy enough to instruct her 11-year-old to call.

DD was skeptical, but the mother insisted that her daughter was responsible, blah, blah, blah.

Well, the girl didn't show up the first day. She waltzed in an hour late on the second day and spent most of her time acting as a camper -- doing projects, etc. -- rather than helping. She talked endlessly with anyone and everyone about how much and when she would be paid. Okay, DD figured that her mother had just overestimated her child's maturity -- it's happened to the best of us.

The girl was nowhere to be found on Wednesday, and when DD called the house, the mother said, "Oh, right, she didn't feel good today." No apology; no excuse for not calling -- as if nothing were out of the ordinary.

Then DD learns that the soi-disant assistant counselor has been discussing the camp at length with her mother's friends, resulting in one who decided not to send her kids. Now, obviously a parent who evaluates a camp based on the perceptions of an 11-year-old is not operating with a full deck, but my DD was understandably frustrated that the whole situation was now costing her money.

So here's my question: We have thread after thread here on imamother that nibble around the edges of peoples' work ethics, and the blame is variously ascribed to anything from kollel to college (or lack thereof) to reliance on government assistance. But how and why would a caring parent allow a child to behave this way? I can understand an 11-year-old not fully realizing that you need to "call in sick," but where is the mother to say, "Honey, if you can't go to work today, you need to call."

I suspect the answer is because neither the mother nor the child considers a camp job to be genuine "work." But that seems to me to be part of the problem. If you don't learn to walk, it's nearly impossible to learn to run. Personally, I think 11 is too young for paid responsibility outside the home, but if you're going to solicit that kind of role for your child, wouldn't you want to ensure that he/she learns from the experience?

Okay, "rant off," as they say!

LOL

mammala120

Thu, Jun 21 2012, 4:16 pm

you hire an 11 year old not 21 year old. come on she is not even a teenager ofcourse she will get cought up in doing the arts and crafts herself and not just be helper. for her this is normal no matter what her mother tells her or does not tell her period. you were not supposto hire such young child in first place. find a replacement.

seeker

Thu, Jun 21 2012, 4:27 pm

I don't think it was a mistake to hire her in the first place, a lot of 11-year-olds really ARE mature and helpful. You wouldn't expect perfection or the type of work you'd get from someone older, but I'm assuming some kind of expectations were laid out at the beginning. For example, showing up.

Fox, I hope your DD dismissed this assistant? Let it be a lesson to the kid AND the mother.

saw50st8

Thu, Jun 21 2012, 4:31 pm

Fox, I don't know if your amazing parenting is to blame, but your kids never cease to amaze me!

At the very least, the mother should have called!

ora_43

Thu, Jun 21 2012, 4:34 pm

I can imagine a parent wanting to let their child succeed or fail on their own, so that the job isn't like one of those school projects that turns out to be more work for the parent than the kid.

Maybe she hadn't even realized that her dd hadn't called.

Or maybe she's not making enough of an effort to teach her child responsibility, which would explain a lot of the story. (She might not realize her dd is irresponsible.)

ora_43

Thu, Jun 21 2012, 4:36 pm

seeker wrote:

Yes, this.

I worked as a mother's helper at that age, and my neighbors' 10-year-olds do the same and are good at it. Of course 11-year-olds aren't as mature as they'll be at 18 or 30, but expecting them to show up and at least attempt to do the job they signed up for isn't out of line.

granolamom

Thu, Jun 21 2012, 5:37 pm

ya know, fox, I suspect that not considering this a 'real job' is only part of the problem. my guess is that these people are thinking only of themselves. probably the mother behaves in similar fashion so she isnt going to know how to better instruct her child.
apples and trees...

your DD can chalk this one up to a learning experience.
I hope she can still find a replacement.

ellie23

Thu, Jun 21 2012, 6:45 pm

I had my first mother;s helper job at 10 years old- every day, 9-4. I would have never done such a thing- I dont think this is acceptable behavior and I am totally with you on this- something is wrong with a mother who does not guide her child to do the right thing in this situation...

ElTam

Thu, Jun 21 2012, 8:56 pm

I said this on a thread about shidduchim, but an 11 y.o. is not an 11 y.o. is not an 11 y.o. Age does not equal maturity.

My two current favorite babysitters are 12 and 14, respectively. I used to have a 16 y.o. come quite a bit, but after she cancelled on me last minute several times and wouldn't tell me until the same day if she was available, I dropped her. I had a 14 y.o. tell one of my kids that their favorite toy was ugly, making my child cry (my other child confirmed the events). I had a seminary girl refuse to tell me her rate although I asked her numerous times and then when I paid her what I thought was fair, told me I was cheap and no one paid that much (although I know that's not true given the number of children I have and the fact that she came when everyone was already asleep so all she had to do was sit on the couch, read, and eat my food).

I think in this case, what the other poster said is true. The mother can't teach what she doesn't know.

Last edited by ElTam on Fri, Jun 22 2012, 5:25 pm; edited 1 time in total

yummymummy

Thu, Jun 21 2012, 9:23 pm

You think this is bad? Our summer intern at work didn't show for work on Monday morning. He finally called in sick at 1:30. Then he failed to show on Tuesday, left early on Wed. and failed to show again today. The guy is a junior in college.

At the very least your daughter needs to have a stern talk with this girl regarding her job responsibilities and let it be known that if this happens again her services will no longer be needed. I babysat and worked in day camps at that age, there is no reason for an 11 year old to behave like this.

precious

Thu, Jun 21 2012, 9:24 pm

I had a post-seminary girl as a daytime babysitter for a couple of weeks. I was shocked at how often she came late (1/2 hr-1 hr) without calling. I would keep calling her, finally getting through after several tries, and "Yeah, I'll be there in 20 min." sooooooo frustrating. until the day that when I finally got through to her, "oh, yeah, cant come today-need to watch my brother" that was the end of her.
I also had another girl who an assistant in a playgroup supposed to babysit for me in the afternoon, no show. When I finally get through to her, she says she cant come. no apology or anything.
It's really annoying.

chocolate chips

Fri, Jun 22 2012, 9:01 am

An 11 yo should be mature enough to do this.
At 11 I was the one running the day camp! your dd should talk to her and tell her exactly what she wants her to do and not do. If she does the arts instead of helping she will not be able to help but there is no reason she can't do the arts WHILST helping.

Good luck!

DrMom

Fri, Jun 22 2012, 9:08 am

Sounds like this 11-yo should be a camper, not a camp employee. I don't know what the mother ws thinking, or if she even knows what's happening (maybe she looks at this job as a substitute for finding a camp for her daughter...)

amother

Fri, Jun 22 2012, 9:40 am

I think not all 11 years olds are cut out for such a job and some yes can't handle it because they are immature and lazy..

That being said 11 is definitely old enough to be responsible and yes her mother should be teaching her to be responsible especially after pushing her to get the job in the first place.

My niece who is 9 makes a day camp for the kids on the block for erev yom tov, erev shabbos.(its in the house nothing fancy) Nothing official but there is no reason why an 11 year old can't be responsible enough. And if she is not then her mother and she should not take the job!

Liba

Fri, Jun 22 2012, 9:52 am

I don't know of any jobs in the "real world" where you would have a job still on the second day if you didn't show up the first. It doesn't matter what the excuse was, the second favorite in the interview list would be called by 10am (on the first day!) at any place of work that I have dealt with.

zaq

Fri, Jun 22 2012, 10:25 am

Fox, I think the answer is that the 11-y/o's mother had no upbringing, either, and is equally inconsiderate and irresponsible. The act of procreation does not automatically endow a person with an adult work ethic or even common courtesy.

11 is not necessarily too young for paid responsibility outside the home. You have to know your kid. Some 11-year-olds are more reliable than some adults. However, very few parents can objectively assess their child's level of maturity. How many mothers have you met who will say "my dc is somewhat immature for her age"?

Agree with Liba that this little tzatzkeh should have been fired immediately. With a mother like hers, things could only get worse.

seeker

Fri, Jun 22 2012, 12:57 pm

DrMom wrote:

No "maybe" in my mind. That was my assumption from the beginning. When I was 11 most kids were campers, the only reason for anyone that age to be looking for a "job" of any sort is if they want to save on either money to pay for camp or effort to find a good camp (because at that age it gets hard, day camps are more fun for little kids), or both.

On another note, even if an 11 year old is mature enough for a job, they're still just 11 and it behooves the parent to make sure they're at least going where they're supposed to go every day. Because no matter how mature the kid is, at that age they are still 100% the parent's responsibility.

Fox

Fri, Jun 22 2012, 1:21 pm

Well, the plot thickens since I posted yesterday!

As most of you suggested, the assistant counselor was not retained. DD dropped off a letter at her house last night to officially inform her that her services were no longer needed.

What really grated was the fact that a family with several children pulled out the camp based on "concerns" that the assistant counselor had allegedly communicated to them.

And this is where things get much, much more interesting.

In my original post, I neglected to mention that the assistant counselor's mother (hereafter referred to as "Mom") runs an in-home day care operation. Several families that use her services for after-school babysitting during the school year apparently decided to put their kids in DD's camp (which also offers an afternoon program for kids with working parents) during the summer. Apparently, we've learned, Mom was unhappy because she had anticipated that her regular clients would use her services exclusively during the summer.

So anyone who thought, like I did, that it was awfully odd for a grown-up to make a decision based exclusively on the impressions of an 11-year-old -- well, it seems that wasn't exactly what happened. Mom apparently told at least a few parents, "Well, I don't want to say loshon hora, but . . . my daughter worked there and I have concerns."

Interestingly, DD had already consulted with a rav concerning Mom: This past year, DD contracted with a couple of working parents to transport their kids from half-day playgroups to Mom's daycare each day, and she was very disturbed by what she saw. Not only was the operation unlicensed, but Mom expressed no interest in becoming licensed; she had far, far more kids than her home could comfortably accommodate; and she often left for up to an hour at a time to do various carpools and errands, leaving a cleaning lady in charge.

Sadly, there's not much that can be done in such a situation. The amounts of money are not really substantial enough to warrant a beis din, and even if confronted, I'm sure Mom would claim that she was acting out of concern for the children.

The assistant counselor was, of course, easily replaced. I reminded DD that no bracha comes from cheating in business, and that her regular clients know what a good job she does.

So I guess it comes back to the old staple of investigation: Cui bono (Who benefits)? When things don't add up, you follow the money. Just sad that a grown woman feels the need to spread fear and distrust in order to swipe business from 17-year-old!

seeker

Fri, Jun 22 2012, 3:06 pm

DrMom

Sat, Jun 23 2012, 3:09 pm

Yikes. The plot did indeed thicken quite a bit.

So, you think she sent her daughter to you just so she could have a "source" for negatve rumors about your DD's business?

Very sophisticated corporate espionage.

Page 1 of 2

1 2 Next