3 Year Old Kick Off of Flight

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DefyGravity

Wed, Jan 24 2007, 11:09 am

"ORLANDO, Fla. (Jan. 23) - AirTran Airways on Tuesday defended its decision to remove a Massachusetts couple from a flight after their crying 3-year-old daughter refused to take her seat before takeoff.

AirTran officials said they followed Federal Aviation Administration rules that children age 2 and above must have their own seat and be wearing a seat belt upon takeoff.

"The flight was already delayed 15 minutes and in fairness to the other 112 passengers on the plane, the crew made an operational decision to remove the family," AirTran spokeswoman Judy Graham-Weaver said.

Julie and Gerry Kulesza, who were headed home to Boston on Jan. 14 from Fort Myers, said they just needed a little more time to calm their daughter, Elly.

"We weren't given an opportunity to hold her, console her or anything," Julie Kulesza said in a telephone interview Tuesday.

The Kuleszas said they told a flight attendant they had paid for their daughter's seat, but asked whether she could sit in her mother's lap. The request was denied.

She was removed because "she was climbing under the seat and hitting the parents and wouldn't get in her seat" during boarding, Graham-Weaver said.

The Orlando-based carrier reimbursed the family $595.80, the cost of the three tickets, and the Kuleszas flew home the next day.
They also were offered three roundtrip tickets anywhere the airline flies, Graham-Weaver said.

The father said his family would never fly AirTran again."

JRKmommy

Wed, Jan 24 2007, 12:44 pm

How long was the family given to get her seated?

If the entire plane was kept waiting, and this wasn't just a matter of waiting another minute or 2, I think this may be reasonable. By law, the plane cannot take off until all passengers over 2 are seated and buckled, and I don't think that it is reasonable to delay the entire flight because you can't deal with your child's behaviour in a basic way.

JRKmommy

Wed, Jan 24 2007, 12:53 pm

Ok, I found a more detailed account of what happened:

http://www.telegram.com/apps/p.....OLUMN

After reading this, I'd say that an extra minute or two probably would have been all that was necessary, and the reaction of the flight attendant seems a bit bizarre. Checking for seat belts and general safety is their job - not offering unsolicited parenting advice.

mumoo

Wed, Jan 24 2007, 4:38 pm

jrkmommy, I had the exact same reactions you did-first supporting the airline. Then after reading the account, all the support and sympathy for the family. We really do need the 'other side of the story'

ShiraMiri

Wed, Jan 24 2007, 5:34 pm

Quote:

The Orlando-based carrier reimbursed the family $595.80, the cost of the three tickets, and the Kuleszas flew home the next day.
They also were offered three roundtrip tickets anywhere the airline flies, Graham-Weaver said.

A refund on their tickets and three more round trip tickets to anywhere the airline flies? That was a profitable tantrum! Smile

Blossom

Thu, Jan 25 2007, 1:56 am

If I'd be a passenger on the plane and needing to make a connecting flight I'd think the airline did what they had to. It had already been delayed 15 minutes by which this couple could've calmed their daughter down, and since they didn't who knows how long this would've taken.

What else would you suggest that the airline do? Wait till she calms down? Give her some calming pills? There were other 112 passengers on that flight and some of them needed to make a connecting flight. I think the airline was right.

BeershevaBubby

Thu, Jan 25 2007, 2:09 am

Sorry but...

A month after ear surgery and they take her up an a plane??

How large is this child that they couldn't wrestle her into her seat and strap her in?

And according to the earlier report, they were already holding everyone up for 15 minutes.

The airline did the right thing.

farmom

Thu, Jan 25 2007, 2:26 am

As someone who's flown many times, on LOOOONG flights, with a baby, I can tell you that most of the airline staff don't have patience for kids. Yes, it's annoying when you have kids 'acting up', and disturbing things. But sometimes we need to live with the fact that ppl with kids need to get somewhere too.

I was flying with my 2 month colicky baby, and we got terrible glares and nasty comments from other passengers and steward/esses. I would rather have not flown, but really needed to get somewhere. And My husband and I tried our best to calm him down, but sometimes, it takes time to quiet a crying kid.

I think many ppl who don't have kids, by choice, often, get frustrated when they are forced to watch/listen to kids act like kids. It's not pleasant to be around kvetchy kids, but, sometimes, that's life.

Without knowing anything abt the family, can you guarantee that your kids would never misbehave on a flight? If they're that perfect, please tell me the tricks of the trade.

The article didn't say that the family was holding up the plane for 15 minutes. For all we know, it could have been held up for OTHER reasons, and then the tantrum started

Sorry so long.

I'm pretty passionate abt this subject.

(although I'm all for well-behaved kids)

BeershevaBubby

Thu, Jan 25 2007, 2:37 am

There's a big difference between a 2 month old colicky baby and a 3 year old having a hissy fit where she's hitting her mother. To me it says other behavioral problems, but that's neither here nor there.

And like I said, there was another article about this and it did state the plane was already delayed 15 minutes.

Also, according to this airline's policy, you would be able to hold your 2 month old in your lap, but after 2 years old, they go into their own seat.

farmom

Thu, Jan 25 2007, 3:03 am

DefyGravity wrote:

"The flight was already delayed 15 minutes . . .

It doesn't say what it was delayed for, and how long this tantrum had been going on.

Regardless, I agree with you, Kmelion. Parents should make sure their kids behave, and at the very least 'force her into a seat'. If not, you're right. If they can't follow the rules, they can't be on the plane.

I was just pointing out, something that the other article insinuated. It sounds like the flight attendants weren't too understanding of what it means to have a kid. Perhaps they jumped at the parents too fast.
(then again, perhaps not) But they were unnecessarily outspoken in their 'parenting lessons'

Here's to well behaved kids and the guidance from Hashem in raising them properly Smile

JRKmommy

Thu, Jan 25 2007, 11:43 am

Here's a follow-up: http://www.telegram.com/apps/p.....page1

Now, I must admit that I've flown with children - many times. My kids are generally well behaved, and I once got compliments from some relieved passengers after a long flight to New Zealand about how quiet my 3 yr old and baby were. However, I also got stuck sitting behind a child-hater earlier this month, who complained loudly about how she "couldn't take" sitting near my 2 yr old and 4 yr old on a daytime flight on which they were chatting and singing with each other. [Dh and I noticed that she was obviously cramming for a pre-med exam at his old university. This prompted him, while standing next to this lady in the baggage claim area, to loudly call me over and say "Honey, I just remembered that you'll have to do the carpool on Monday, because I've got to go down to U of T for a med school admission committee meeting. They're revising the entrance criteria again to focus on interpersonal skills instead of grades." Did I mention how much I love dh?]

The comments this columnist got depress me a bit. As I said, I don't expect an airline to compromise safety regulations or hold up a flight indefinitely - but I also think that if you fly, you can expect to be around children. Deal with it.

ChavieK

Thu, Jan 25 2007, 12:58 pm

I too have flown with my kids & sympathize with those parents, although I have never had one with such a tantrum.I have also missed connecting flights because of delays. The airlines will not hold flights for their own delays, certainly not for a childs tantrum. My opinion is let the kid scream! As long as she is buckled! That was the problem.Had they kicked them off for the screaming alone I would be enraged, however you can't have a plane full of people, or even one person for that matter, miss a flight for it.

Mitzvahmom

Thu, Jan 25 2007, 1:40 pm

Yeah I am sorry... I traveled with all three of my kids..

Before we got to the airport we discussed safety rules for the airplane. The kids packed their own suitcases.

There was one child that was crying on the plane, my kids brought her cookies and talked to her. They got the child into her seat and buckled.

and the EAr thing! That makes me mad!! Even kids that have not had surgery on their ears, the pressure is too much! Maybe the child had not fully healed!

Plus they are getting free round trip tickets for their child having a tantrum! Talk about incentive for other familes to have their kids have fits!

Squash

Thu, Jan 25 2007, 1:57 pm

Marney wrote:

Quote:

A refund on their tickets and three more round trip tickets to anywhere the airline flies? That was a profitable tantrum! Smile

try to arrange that next time you fly

Blossom

Thu, Jan 25 2007, 2:11 pm

I agree ChavieK.

Just strap her in and let her scream while the flight takes off. For those who can't handle that, they can put on earphones, whatever. It's one thing if she's just screaming yet strapped in to her seat and following safety regulations.
But it's another thing in holding up a whole flight of people because the parents can't get to strap their child in her seat.
This is not about flying with children. Or for those who get disturbed if there are kids on the flight Rolling Eyes

.
It's about holding up a plane becasue the parents of a little girl can't get her to sit in her seat.

mirikush

Tue, Jan 30 2007, 8:49 pm

Quote:

have you actually had any 3 year olds????? Even the most angelic one can turn. They're 3 not 10 years old. It's not behavioral problems...it's normal behavior! The ones that never seem affected by their yetzer hara...they're the ones I wonder about (although I dream of having one of those) Simple tiredness can turn your angelic little well behaved princess into a monster!
Quite simply the flight crew screwed up. Most likely career minded, no kids etc and they don't trust the parenting skills of others. She probably had a date at the next destination and had to get there on time......... (just kidding even I am aware of takeoff queues etc) But if you're willing to sell tickets to little kids you have to be aware of issues that might occur. Unfortunantly it's just another a body in a seat and a little more profit. Some airlines alow those with little kids to board first and give them treats (ie colouring books etc) to distract them.

Quote:

Sorry but...

A month after ear surgery and they take her up an a plane??

even if she hadn't had surgery she would have ear pain from the altitude drop so I don't think that was an issue...little kids are prone to pain during ascending and descending because of the length of the tubes in their ears...

All up it was handled not so great. But since we live in the Me generation and other people like their personal space and quiet even in positions when this is simply not possible, the people with little children lose because they are usually the noisiest and most noticeable! They were made to feel so bad about their kid that they were stressed. Probably one of the reasons why they couldn't strap their child in! I think people forget that little kids actually have some strength. For example: My 2 year old dd hates showers and baths. She'll willing get ready for the shower/bath but when it comes to water over her head she'll buck her body and throw herself. My dh is a big strong man k'nh and even he has troubles holding her down. Once the water is off her head she calms down...so I I know how hard it is to get a seatbelt onto a protesting child especially when pressured to do it quickly!

avigayil

Tue, Jan 30 2007, 9:00 pm

In secular society, most people don't like kids. They don't want to be around them and cannot imagine why people bring kids on a plane.

We have taken ds on a plane and plan on taking dd on a flight soon. It is always precarious with kids. I just always hope and daven they behave when needed.
I don't care what they offered, I still hate the 'bad mom' stare when my kids act up.

supermom

Wed, Jan 31 2007, 8:04 am

Mirikush well said. Very Happy

micki

Wed, Jan 31 2007, 9:00 am

I read the article.
my conclusions: they were both wrong.
the parents for flying with a child who recently had surgery.
the parents for not preparing snacks, new toy anything to distract a child.
the parents for not putting their foot down and allowing themsleves to be kicked off.

and then the airline for being rude
for not giving the parents a chance
for kicking them off.

I have flown MANY times with children.
while every child reacts differently to flying, its a parents job to prepare the child for what is going to happen.
we always prepared special snacks that were for bribing if needed. we went to the dollar store and bought new toys that were just for the plane. we told our kids what will happen, when.
if it were my kid screaming, I would try to get her under control quickly, and instead of leaving the plane when asked, I would get the kid into her seat- or at least tell the flight attendant that she will buckle up as soon as the plane moves.
but then again if I knew I'd get free tickets out of it maybe I'd get off!!!
LOL
I wonder how many of these type tantrums the child goes thru at home.

yoyosma

Wed, Jan 31 2007, 9:00 am

Yes, kids are kids, but at some point they just need to sit down and be quiet.
A flight attendants JOB is to make sure that passengers are seated and belted in, its for their safety.
Yes, in this post 9 11 world, I am sure that there are flight attendants taking liberties, but when a screaming child is holding up a flight, what about the other passengers? Anyone would be annoyed to miss a connecting flight and rightly so.
And then to give them another flight and free vouchers? As Marney said, profitable tantrum indeed!!
I took this off of a message board, so there is no real SOURCE but interesting to read.

Quote:

Shame on anyone who feels that what happened to this family is wrong. I myself am an Airtran Flight Attendant. From the perspective of a SAFETY TRAINED co-worker, these FA's should be comended. They did everything by the book which we are trained to go by, per the FAA. We are not there for your comfort, we are there for your SAFETY, contrary to popular belief.

There are certain rules and regulations that must be followed by ALL passengers, reguardless of age, size, relations, cultural background...so on so forth.

I personally spoke with one of the FA's from this flight and there seems to be a one sided story from the parents of the temper tantrum throwing child's parent's point of view. The media did a very poor job in relaying the information to the population. The parents also neglected to tell of their child crawling under other passengers legs and seats, screaming and yelling. The fact that the father decided to not partake in helping calm the child down and seat the child in the seat with it's seatbelt fastened. The fact that other passengers had to step in to help try to get the child under control.

I personally have had to have a family removed for the same reason. Fortunatly, they were educated enough to understand why and deplaned without any dispute.

As per the FAA...
A main cabin door cannot be closed for push back until ALL passengers are seated with seatbelts securely fastened. No one is exempt!
Children 2 yrs of age and over may NOT be lap children...no exceptions!
Seatbelts must be fastened at all times when seated and whenever the seatbelt sign is illuminated. (When the seatbelt sign is off, passengers are allowed to move about the cabin, but when seated, ALL SEAT BELTS MUST BE FASTENED.)

SIMPLE RULES....so why can't people follow them. I learned in elementary school that there are rules in place everywhere to keep order and to keep people safe. So why would somone want to endanger their life, let alone their child's life, by not following a simple rule?
posted by: r at January 26, 2007 6:06 PM

Its a new world we live in, where 'modern parenting' means to let our children control our lives.

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