I've read the other Philly threads on this site, but have gotten pretty confused by them.
What I am trying to figure out is:
What are the different neighborhoods? Who tends to live in each? (MO vs yeshivish, etc.)
What is the average cost of houses in each neighborhood? Are there typically rentals (houses or apartments) available?
Please tell me as much as you can about the schools- Torah Academy and Politz. If you live in one neighborhood, is it a given that your kids are going to a certain school? Do people commute from the opposite neighborhoods?
Lived in the area a while ago so I can't answer all of your questions (specifically about housing) but I figured I'd try to help you get the conversation started
In terms of the neighborhoods: I'll start with Lower Merion/Bala Cynwyd which are suburbs of Philly, they are about 20 mins from Center City by train (approx, it's been a while!). They are called by both names but they overlap - pretty much the same neighborhood. Because it's OOT, the communities tend to be more mixed, but my impression from there is that it is largely MO (at least when I lived in the area - it may have changed.) The main shul is Lower Merion Synagogue which is mainly populated by the large MO community. It is across the street from the only MO high school (co-ed) in the area. It's a wealthy neighborhood with beautiful older houses.
Overbrook/Wynnewood is not far from this area, a few blocks, pretty much walking distance. I think it's a smaller community and more to the right of MO. Since there is no boys' high school in the area (Torah Academy has a girl's HS), a lot of people who are more to the right (sorry, tough to label people - a lot of them seem to be "just plain frum," if you know what I mean) here send their boys to board elsewhere for high school (NY and Baltimore are equidistant from Philadelphia so they are common locations to send to.)
Torah Academy's elementary school is in this general area and so its population really ranges the spectrum of Orthodoxy.
Then there is Northeast Philadelphia. A more urban area, technically Philadelphia proper. I'm pretty sure this is where the more Yeshivish community lives. While a nice area, it definitely does NOT have the same suburban feel as the other places above. More of the kosher restaurants are located here, there are a bunch of shuls (I don't know specifics of this neighborhood, though) and Politz is in this neighborhood.
There are other smaller pockets of Orthdoxy in the area (Elkins Park has a Young Israel, it's another suburb; Yardley has a Yeshiva - about 45 mins from Philadelphia, Cherry Hill - across the river - about 30 mins away) but these are the main Philly hubs.
In terms of commuting between neighborhoods, definitely happens. I lived in the area while I was in schools there, and people sent to the schools they felt were right for their children. Some sent for convenience, some didn't. There's bussing between neighborhoods, they're not more than 20-25 mins apart with normal traffic. The schools, from my perceptions as a younger student, seemed to be equally religious with similar hashkafot so there were no real politics about who sent where. Again, things could have changed so please correct me if I'm wrong.
Hopefully someone else can fill in the gaps, hope that helped!
From what I have heard, Politz has moved more RW and Torah Academy more LW. Does anyone else know is this is true?
This is somewhat accurate; a couple of years ago TA shifted a little more to the left and some of the more right-wing people from the Lower Merion/Bala neighborhood switched their kids over to Politz. Either way, the community is a nice one and is mixed, so you will have RW and non-RW people in both schools.
In Lower Merion, housing can get a little crazy expensive. There are twins that are under 400K and everything else is more. There is a kollel, several shuls, and the girls high school there. It is generally more left of center. There is also a co-ed high school that is obviously the modern one for teens to attend.
Wynnewood is closeby and is a smaller community. Torah Academy is located in Wynnewood and is modern and very pro-Israel.
The Norheast section is more right wing and has Politz of the Northeast. It is right wing/yeshivish. Over the bridge is Cherry Hill, New Jersey. There is a community there as well with shuls and Politz of Cherry Hill. Most people send to their local community school but there are always exceptions.
I grew up in Philly and left almost 20 years ago. I do keep up a little bit with what is going on and I'll try and help you if I can. I grew up in the NE so I know that the best.
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What are the different neighborhoods? Who tends to live in each? (MO vs yeshivish, etc.)
Please tell me as much as you can about the schools- Torah Academy and Politz. If you live in one neighborhood, is it a given that your kids are going to a certain school? Do people commute from the opposite neighborhoods?
Most every place in Philly people live pretty much mixed. Except right net to the yeshivah is mostly only the yeshiva faculty. This is "the other side" of city line, right across a main road from lower merion.
In the NE everything is pretty much mixed. I grew up in oxford circle which almost no longer exists as an orthodox community. The shul there closed and most orthodox people live in Rawnhurst now. There are two main shuls in rawnhurst, in addition to a kiruv shul- eitz chayim and lubavitcher center there is also another small shul that when I lived there was called Rabbi Yoles'. I think there is also a sefardic shul today. There is a young Israel in another neighborhood. When I was a kid it was mostly older people I have no idea what it is like now.
Both of the main shuls are in the same general area and people who daven in both live intermixed in that area. Ahavas torah is the more yeshivishe shul. Bnei Israel is not bishitta MO, or wasn't when I lived there but had more of an MO contingent. They hosted the Bnei Akiva group, for example, but there were kids who davened at the shul whose parents did not allow them to participate due to the fact that it was coed.
People who davened in both shuls went to both schools but in my day mostly the NE kids went to politz HA (sorry for writing as HA throughout this post, it only became Politz after I left while I was there it was plain hebrew academy).
But there were kids who commuted in both directions. When I was a kid politz was completely separate from first grade while TA was coed until 5th grade for Limudei kodesh and coed for chol all the way through. I don't know if that has changed. Yet interestingly the yeshiva faculty all sent their kids to TA. So TA was a mix of really shtark yeshivishe kids from the yeshiva faculty and the MO kids from Lower Merion with other just plain frum as another poster put it from various neighborhoods thrown into the mix. HA was a little more eclectic. With the yeshivishe NE kids, many just plain frums and very few b'shitta MO, HA was also where "traditional" Israelis and unaffiliated russians who decided to give their kids a jewish education sent their kids so we had a very interesting mix of everything from very yeshivishe (shul rabbis kids) to not even shomer shabbos. When I was there the rabbi of one of the reform temples sent his kids to HA.
I do think that TA has moved more bshitta left while Politz has become more RW. You can look at all TA's (really cute) youtube videos. Politz has no youtube videos.
TA has a girls high school which is close to a BY as an out of town day school high school is going to get. In my days we even went to BY convention. From what I am seeing on their website it is now in its own campus which is really nice for them. We had 4 classrooms in the corner of the elementary school which got very unpleasant at times. Alot of my same teachers still teach there like Rebbetzins Svei and Kamenetzky and Mrs. Sturman and Rabbi Brisman (rav of the young israel in elkins park). Great teachers and really nice people.
Philly is a really unique and nice community. I am not sure which school I would send my kids to if I lived there or which neighborhood. I think every choice has its advantages. Much success in your move!
My personal experience w the mo community in lower merion - they are not friendly - some were downright nasty. We couldn't wait to move out. Also there is a safety issue in north Philly and lower merion - Philly is one big crack ghetto and even wen u live in the frum or nicer area murders happen in ur corner 7/11 (Two happened wen I was there not to mention 36 day time burglaries!!) If u have to move make the best of it but I would never voluntarily move there...
I live in Bala Cynwyd/Lower Merion & moved here from Wynnewood. Have been in Philly 10+ years & have friends & acquaintances in every neighborhood mentioned. I am very happy living in Bala Cynwyd, it is diverse with yeshivish to modern orthodox & Chabad as well.
Lower Merion has grown a lot as a community in the past 10 years, so anyone who lived here more than 10 years ago would not really have a good take on how the community is today.
Your choice of neighborhood may also be impacted by tax considerations & DH's & your work location. Property taxes are lower in Elkins Park, but it is a more difficult commute to center city. The city of Philadelphia has a wage tax, so if you are paying city wage tax anyhow, living in the North East will not cause you to pay extra tax, but will if you work outside of the city. Cherry Hill is in NJ & has high taxes, but larger nice homes & a growning community & is closer to Lakewood if you are sending teens to school there. Wynnewood has lovely homes, but very little rental property, so if you are just starting out it will be hard to find an apartment there. Lower Merion has a mix of apartments & homes, is expensive by mid-west standards, but very reasonable by NY- Boston-Washington DC standards.
Lower Merion has a lot of young families in rental apartments & established families in homes, there are at least 7 different minyanim to choose from on Shabbas morning. It is an easy comute to drive down town & there is commuter train as well.
I think you can see my bias. These are all very nice warm communities & I hope if you are coming to visit you will PM some of us locals to show you around.
I could tell you about the schools, but that would take all day. Look at the school's websites for a start & make some calls. Visit if you can. It will tell you much more.
When you are saying "yeshivish," is it hardcore yeshivish or more OOT yeshivish?
I have seen TA's website, but Politz has very limited information online.
We hope to visit but since the communities are not all walking distance from each other, want to spend shabbos in the community we think would be the best bet for us.
When you are saying "yeshivish," is it hardcore yeshivish or more OOT yeshivish?
I have seen TA's website, but Politz has very limited information online.
We hope to visit but since the communities are not all walking distance from each other, want to spend shabbos in the community we think would be the best bet for us.
Are there a lot of young families in Rawhnurst?
I would say OOT yeshivishe. Philly was always very OOTish I can't imagine that much has changed.
I love this video from TA's youtube collection:
I don't know how many young families are in Rawnhurst.
Why don't you go for shabbos once to Rawnhurst and once to bala/ merion. Or at least go for the weekend and get a feel for one on a weekday and see if its worth going back for shabbos.
Politz doesn't seem to have much online. I did see some sort of video the school put out a year or so ago. I looked for it but can't find it.
I would say OOT yeshivishe. Philly was always very OOTish I can't imagine that much has changed.
I love this video from TA's youtube collection:
I don't know how many young families are in Rawnhurst.
Why don't you go for shabbos once to Rawnhurst and once to bala/ merion. Or at least go for the weekend and get a feel for one on a weekday and see if its worth going back for shabbos.
Politz doesn't seem to have much online. I did see some sort of video the school put out a year or so ago. I looked for it but can't find it.
Thank you so much, this is all very helpful- especially the Politz video! I wasn't able to find anything like that on my own.
We hope to be able to go for shabbos, but posts, videos, and other information we have been getting from afar are invaluable in helping us narrow things down.
I live in Rhawnhurst and I disagree that it's a cracked out ghetto or whatever that other person wrote. It's Philly yes but I doubt we have more crime then NY. And there is plenty of crime in the richer more suburban areas. I see stuff posted about break in's all the time.
Anyway, there are rentals and houses for sale. The community is diverse, there are a few chassidim here (other than lubavitch), there are plenty of yeshivish, modern and israeli. There are 5 different shuls in the eruv. 3 restaurants in rhawnhurst and others in the nearby communities. A shoprite with a kosher section. and Politz is the local school. The school itself is more right wing but not all the families that attend are. Most people tend to stick t the school in their neighborhood with a few exceptions.
this website may help...http://www.jcor.org/
If you have other questions feel free to PM me because I may forget to check back here.
My children go to politz and I am very happy there. The teachers infuse the kids with a love for yiddishkeit, and torah and mitzvos. The morahs are very caring and teach creatively and are also up to date using smartboard etc. I beieve they have a gr8 curriculm, and a very good standard in lemudei chol and kodesh. The classes are big so there are a mix of kids in a class from israeli, mo and chassidsh. Since there is a uniform u wouldn't know who was who until u c the parents.politz is made up of locals and then people who commute(like us). From 1st grade the children are not coed, and also from 2nd grade boys they have school on sunday. They also offer afterschoolclubs. Hope this helps. Its a gr8 school which my kids love.
It seems to me that the cost of living in philly is not much less than than say, Brooklyn. Is this true?
The houses in Rawhnhurst mostly seem to be attached homes (from what I can tell), is this true, or are there also single family homes at reasonable prices?
I also live in Philly - Bala Cynwyd. The cost of living here is not much less than NY, where we lived before. Renting is very expensive, and kosher food is much more expensive than NY. We occasionally get deliveries from Baltimore or Lakewood of meat and chicken, because the prices are much better there.
I don't know much about housing because I rent, but rental costs for a 2 bedroom/2 bathroom are at least $1500+ and go up from there.
We love living here, the community is wonderful. Bala Cynwyd is beautiful, the streets are leafy and green and the houses are charming. There are a TON of young couples, we have a whole bunch of friends we made right away. There is a large MO population but also a more right-wing MO/yeshivish contingent that goes to the local Young Israel with us.
Rawnhurst, I hear, is a much more yeshivish community if that's what your looking for. The reasons we decided not to move there were that we heard there weren't a lot of young couples - which I have seen from others is correct. Additionally, no one told us this when we were looking, but Rawnhurts/the Northeast is UGLY. It's depressingly ugly, actually. I work near the northeast and I go through it every day, and I'm SO glad we don't live there.
You pay for the difference to live in Bala. But there's a kollel community for the very yeshivish and beautiful homes. I would definitely suggest Bala over Rawnhurst.
Have you considered Cherry Hill, NJ? It's a suburb of Philly (just minutes away) with the best options...wonderfully warm community, great suburban lifestyle, shuls, mikvahs, restaurants, affordable frum community with it's own amazing schools (plus close enough to Philly to have the Philly schools as options as well). And the prices can't be beat....Rent a 2 bedroom condo for $1150....buy a single family family 4 bedroom house for $200K...just to give a few examples. A few years back we were ranked by US News & World Reports as the 8th safest city in the country...Philly can't say that! E-mail me for more info. or to arrange a Shabbat.
