Baalei Teshuva Raising Frum/Chasidishe Kids

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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling

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Motek

Tue, Oct 12 2004, 12:10 pm

I am in agreement with you.

amother

Wed, Oct 13 2004, 4:50 pm

Motek do you mind if I ask you a question?
Are you Bt or ffb?
just curiouse, you can tell me to mind my own buisness if you want but we don't know you anyway.

Tefila

Thu, Oct 14 2004, 11:25 am

Firstly WE ARE ALL BAALEI TESHUVAH's HOPEFULLY or atleast we should strive to be noone is born a Tzadik except in rare occassions!!
Secondly since motek you quote the Lubavitcher Rebbe let me ask you isnt Ahavat Yisroel the frontier ! That means in all actions.
Thirdly our Avos as well as Moshe Rabbeinu gave birth to decendants who went off the derech are we any better than they?!!!!!
We should try our best but most of all pray since it is all in Hashems hands anyway!

gryp

Thu, Oct 14 2004, 6:33 pm

everyone has different opinions on raising kids. yes, there is a stereotype of the way ffb's (or whatever it is, I hate that word) raise their kids, and stereotypes for the way BT's (or whatever it is, I hate that word too) raise thier kids. even without these stereotypes no one really agrees on how to raise kids, so it could be that you disagree with a person about how they raise their kids and it could have nothing to do with how they grew up! lets just pray that in ten or twenty years we can look at our kids and be proud of them.

Tefila

Thu, Oct 14 2004, 6:48 pm

Hi I got a moment here to add Motek sorry for that thing on Ahavat Yisroel I know you mean well but the way you brought up this post seemed just a bit harsh.

Ozmom

Sat, Oct 16 2004, 3:29 pm

freilich! you hit the nail on the head! We are all BTs

BB -your quote.

Quote:

As someone who works with kids at risk, I have dealt with a large proportion of children from chassidish (ffb) homes.
I think theere is a serious poblem in the way that chassiddish ffbs parent and I think this should be dealt with.

whats with the chassidish (ffb) thingo
there are chassidish bts and there are non chassidish ffbs.
are you insinuating that the problems are exclusively chassidish ffbs???\

I think there are problems full stop.
bt or ffb

I don't think any ffbs should be preaching to bts how to raise their kids.
Let people in the same position give each other advice. People who have been there and done that. Being an FFB I would not be so presumptious as to think I could give advice to someone becoming frum on how to bring up the issue of their past with their kids as I have never been in that position.
and...visa versa

Tefila

Sat, Oct 16 2004, 8:41 pm

Oz Mom I do see where you are coming from. However it is not the issue of judging people since if one has never been in that situation you're right we cannot judge. However to give advice and not our own mind you. What is wrong with that. People have the perogative to take or leave it. It is sometimes a mitzvah to give advice especially when it is concerning our children . A Bt I Mad

hate that label or Ffb I Mad

hate that label can give me advice especially if it is the Torah viewpoint (as my 2yr old would say) Why not?
Oh dear I sound bossy take what I say with a grain of salt. But atleast think about that grain Very Happy

Ozmom

Sun, Oct 17 2004, 11:24 am

Freilich I see your point however there is a diff between giving advice on how to raise kids directed at everyone, and giving advice to a particular group of people, when you don't have the same experiences as them.

Ozmom

Sun, Oct 17 2004, 11:27 am

Let me just add a correction.
I'm not talking about people involved with Baalei teshuvah, like the Mashpiim, the teachers who teach their kids, principals, Rabonim, thats different, but generally in those cases the people involved all know each other and their backgrounds etc. Quite likely their advice will differ from person to person

Motek

Mon, Oct 18 2004, 12:54 pm

Yael

Mon, Oct 18 2004, 6:05 pm

what is there to be embarrased of? if you are a FFB then what? and if you're BT then you have reason to be proud!

Tefila

Mon, Oct 18 2004, 8:03 pm

Yey Yael good for u Smile

Ozmom

Mon, Oct 18 2004, 10:20 pm

Motek sorry but it seems you overlooked this last sentence of my quote

Quote:

but generally in those cases the people involved all know each other and their backgrounds etc. Quite likely their advice will differ from person to person

gryp

Tue, Oct 19 2004, 6:57 am

Yael wrote:

what is there to be embarrased of? if you are a FFB then what? and if you're BT then you have reason to be proud!

of course, so what is the point of asking?

Last edited by gryp on Fri, Jul 08 2005, 5:06 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Tue, Oct 26 2004, 11:05 am

note: I am BT, so all BT's out here, don't jump on me.
note 2: as I was writing this, it became too personal, so I'm posting it as Amother.

I find (through my own experience & that of many friends) that the biggest (and often - the only) issue of BT families, is that they do not have a family network to rely on in the times of trouble or tention.

An overwhelmed FFB girl will run to her mother's house. An overwhelmed BT girl will run to............ well, nobody. May be her pillow to cry.

An FFB girl's child throws tantrum, she dials her older sister, a BT girl dials..... her own number to hear buisy signal?

Etc.

I am very fortunate to have a few families we're close with to ask for help and advice when I need it. BUT, no matter how close we are, we're not family & family comes 1st. I've had a very difficult pregnancy and labor, & recovery took a while. Believe me, I felt the absence of a REAL family!!!!

We just have to face certain issues alone.

There is a range of issues that we have to face b/c we're BT's, but most of them come when kids are older during the 'switching' time.

Now, the frum community has no right what so ever to tell us we don't know how to do it!!!! We might not always know what we have to do, but once we know, we do it. We just have to put more effort into it. FFB's take it for granted, & b/c of that some of them (don't jump on me for this) say we're less capable or knowledgeble.

Actually, there are Rabbeim who are trained on how to help BT's with their concerns. Some BT's I know were hurt, b/c they addressed their shailos to Rabbeim, who were not trained in this matter. One ended up divorcing, the other - overwhelmed almost to the point of a break down.

As far as shiduhim, well, most FFB do not accept BT's into their families. When a BT we know got engaged to an FFB girl, another FFB's reaction was "Who is he engaed to? So & so? Oh, his wife is a BT, that's why. Mazal Tov! So nice!" Well, this person will not want us for in-laws.........
I've seen this happen too often.

When I was dating, I learned that if an FFB shiduh was offered, the 1st question to ask s "What's wrong with him?" Sorry to all FFB's here, but it's true. Sad but true.

In any case, H' loves us all, BT or FFB.
I just try my best to be deserving of his love.

Hope I didn't make too many enemies by writing all of the above....

P.S. I know Rabbi Kokis of Ohr Sameah & asked him sheilos -
he's wonderful & knows what he's talking about.
He said in the beg.-of-thread article: "Tremendous work, sensitivity, and tefilla are necessary"

Yes, sensitivity is the key.
Don't look down upon us! That hurts!

chestnut

Tue, Oct 26 2004, 11:15 am

amother wrote:

When I was dating, I learned that if an FFB shiduh was offered, the 1st question to ask s "What's wrong with him?" Sorry to all FFB's here, but it's true. Sad but true.

VERY true. there was not a single shidduch betw. FFB and a BT that I've heard of, that didn't trigger this question!

Motek

Tue, Oct 26 2004, 12:08 pm

thanks amother, for validating the need for this thread! And the extra bonus, that you actually know the author of the article I posted! Glad to hear he was wonderful and helpful. After all, I posted what he wrote because I know this is an impt. topic, which is why I was taken aback by some remarks here.

what did you mean by this? what's "switching" time?

Quote:

There is a range of issues that we have to face b/c we're BT's, but most of them come when kids are older during the 'switching' time.

back to your point about a support system - if I can add - it's not only about who to turn to when you're not well or your kid acts up, it's about not having lived in a home where it's not merely about "parenting" but about "chinuch."

The more time BT's can spend in frum people's homes for Shabbos, Yomtov, and in general, before they marry, the better. It's important to see Yiddishkeit lived, and definitely not enough to just learn about the Bayis Ha'Yehudi (the Jewish Home) in a classroom!

if I can make a request - if people want to talk about shidduchim, yichus, etc. can it be in another thread? can this thread please remain a chinuch discussion?

Quote:

Hope I didn't make too many enemies by writing all of the above....

aren't you just as entitled to write about what you perceive as special issues for BT's as those who think there are no special issues at all?

Rochel Leah

Tue, Oct 26 2004, 4:00 pm

amother, you are so so right, the shidduch scene is disgusting, but just to make you feel good---as I said before my parents are both bt's and I am very proud of them....I married a boy whose family is complete ffb. when we were going out I asked him" just out of inrest, why did you agree to go out from me, if I come from bts? so he said " I have enough yiches, I dont need any more and it isnt important to me, its the type of girl that counts."'

I would rather my kids marry kids of bt's or bt, cuz they lack that " im the greatest attitude" they apprecaite being frum etc...

amother

Tue, Oct 26 2004, 8:46 pm

Hi, here I am to answer the questions:

Quote:

what did you mean by this? what's "switching" time?

when the kids are older, it might be hard to convince them that frunkeit is something they're interested in. In these cases, a proffecional Rav, like Rabbi Kokis should be consulted.

Quote:

The more time BT's can spend in frum people's homes

oh, we CAN spend lots of time there. The question is: MAY WE? (see below)

Quote:

it's about not having lived in a home where it's not merely about "parenting" but about "chinuch."

let me share another sad truth with you: everybody's thrilled to see us when we're single; they love us when we get married and have our 1st baby. However, after that, when real chinuch begins, we have too many kids, that wake up too early, that make too much noise..... After we just got married, we barely ate at home for Shabbos. With the baby we went to eat out pretty often. Now, with several kids almost nobody wants us anymore.
(next line is not directed at anybody personally) If you want to help us, don't tell us what to do or how & when to do it. Don't put us down by saying that we dont' do a good job. Show us that you care and don't forget that we exist.

Quote:

it's about not having lived in a home where it's not merely about "parenting" but about "chinuch."

a rhetorical question: "How much did I learn about Yiddishkeit from that FFB lady who wanted to know why would an FFB marry a BT?

Quote:

aren't you just as entitled to write about what you perceive as special issues for BT's as those who think there are no special issues at all?

I did say here a few things that aren't pleasant to hear to some. I just hope that they will feel my pain and the pain of many other girls in my situation. I've been on the edge of the dreaded post-patrum depression. Things are getting better, I really feel like I'm winning the battle, slowly, but surely, B'H. But half the times somebody mentoines "my mother did this & this for me", or I can't go somwhere b/c I can't find a babysitter & don't have a younger sister to 'save' me, I burst into tears.

I know I will get over my depression fully & stop being so sencitive, but at times like this it all comes crashing down on you & you feel it all much stronger.

amother

Tue, Oct 26 2004, 8:50 pm

another note:

Yael wrote:

what is there to be embarrased of? if you are a FFB then what? and if you're BT then you have reason to be proud!

that is true. But I would like to carry my pride without the pain.

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