What is your monthly net income?

ora_43

Mon, Feb 04 2013, 5:11 am

The median means 50% are above, 50% are below. So if you have 80 people earning 4,000 shekels a month and 20 earning 100,000 a month, the average salary would be 23,200, and the median would be 4,000.

The difference between the average and the median is what shows income disparity. A few people earning lots of money pull the average up, but not the median, whereas if you have a steady increase instead of people clustered at the ends, the average and median will be around the same.

In Israel the median is a bit under 75% of the average IIRC (average individual salary is over 8,000, median is more like 6,500). So there's more of a disparity than in most of Europe - not surprising considering the huge sectors where a lot of people are voluntarily not employed (ie hareidim) or tend to favor a traditional lifestyle over higher education (hareidim, bedouin, many Arabs).

A really big percent of the Israeli workforce (relatively speaking) has no college degree. Like, 40-50%. Among those with a college degree, average monthly individual income is over 11,000.

ora_43

Mon, Feb 04 2013, 5:14 am

Tablepoetry wrote:

I agree with you that much of Israel seems to be thriving economically.
However, this poll actually does emphasize that half the population is NOT. It's late and I'm too tired to calculate exactly, but it seems that around 54% replied that they earn less than 12K income as a family. Now maybe these are young couples just starting out. Or maybe they are families with 5 kids.

As someone mentioned, the poll illustrated how polarized society here is.

As someone in the less than 12K category, I feel like we're doing pretty well economically. We won't be going to a hotel for Pesach but going out for coffee isn't out of the question.

If our kids were older it would be tough on that income. Iy'H by the time they're out of elementary we'll be above the 8,000-12,000 category.

amother

Mon, Feb 04 2013, 5:14 am

I make 22 k bruto - which works out to 14 k net. that's without a car. If I took a car it would be around 11k.
DH is in kollel - 500 NIS (less than datot, because he's not Israeli)

altogether 14.5 k a month

It would be a lot more if it weren't for the crazy taxes in Israel. I don't know how anyone working in Israel manages to make more than that after taxes. For every extra 1000 NIS I make, half goes in tax+bituach leumi

Plus we pay full arnona, and full childcare costs with no discounts. It's the "middle class curse". (This despite us being "parasites" according to the secular media.) Everything goes according to my pretax salary.

While young married couples being supported by their parents have discounts for arnona, child care, and everything else. So they could have less coming in, but also much lower expenses.

chanchy123

Mon, Feb 04 2013, 5:20 am

sarahd wrote:

Karnash wrote:

Too tired to respond last night, but this morning - looking at the poll - I don't have any conclusions, just some observations.
Obviously, the poll is very limited - it doesn't include many parameters - no. of children, no. of salaries, education, work experience, age, disabilities, special needs children, etc.
According to Bituach Leumi, the average gross salary in Israel is 8,506 shekel or 17,000 shekel for a 2 income family - before taxes and BL, before kitzvaot.

So it's distressing to see that more than 2/3 of Imamothers earn less than the average. Probably closer to 3/4 when you realize that the incomes voted on include lots of non-salary items. Just goes to show you that there is considerable polarization in Israeli society. A few people are earning NIS100,000 a month and they pull up the average for those earning only NIS5000.

Many families on imamother are kolel families. In Israel one of the absolute poorest sectors is definitly chareidi families that live kolel lifestyles. While other posters are middle class and upper middle class

etky

Mon, Feb 04 2013, 5:31 am

ora_43 wrote:

Thank you! That was so much better and clearer than my own attempt. This type of thing was never my strong suite (unfortunately, because I'd probably be earning a lot more that I do if I had better mathematical/analytical skills... ).

shabbatiscoming

Mon, Feb 04 2013, 7:25 am

sarahd wrote:

Karnash wrote:

But sarad, most of the imamothers on this site seem to be in the kollel lifestyle.So, no, there is not polarization in israeli society, but there is on imamother.

ora_43

Mon, Feb 04 2013, 9:57 am

Merrymom wrote:

Even under amother I wouldn't answer this question. I just don't see why you need to know how much money other people are making. It's rude.

I can easily think of practical reasons that someone might want to know someone else's salary. They might be considering looking for work in their same field, or they might wonder how well jobs in a certain country pay in general (note the forum this is in), things like that.

It seems rude to you because of the culture you were raised in, but it's no more objectively rude than knowing how many kids someone has or what their job is. Unless you're going to judge someone based on how much they make.

freidasima

Mon, Feb 04 2013, 1:52 pm

What Ora pointed out is important. And it's equally important to realize that there are more and more one income families and that in practical terms including a large aliya from poorer countries employers here often try to get away with paying less and less in actual terms of how far a salary can go. Over 40% of the country still works for government, semi government and municipal type jobs, major organizations etc. and those are notoriously low paying. More and more such jobs are clerical but require either a BA or an MA. fewer and fewer such jobs even in the government and municipal sector give tenure when they used to in the past.

When I say imamother is an anglo bubble it doesn't mean that people LIVE in a bubble but rather that without exception everyone on imamother living in EY speaks fluent English. That, milechaschila gives them an edge in the job market that your average Israeli doesn't have. They have never tried to get a job without English and yes it makes a difference on certain jobs and not only English teachers (lol!)

A friend of mine working with her MA as a rakezet of a department at the Hebrew university, with twenty years seniority has a gross salary of 7500 shekel a month. Do you realize how low that is? Her assistant, the department secretary who I also know, has a BA and her gross salary is...5,500 shekel a month. To be a plain ordinary secretary there, in kupat cholim, in various agencies such as ours, one needs at LEAST a BA, preferably an MA. One needs to know English and be able to type in English as well. And...salaries range from 4500 to 6500 shekel gross salary depending on seniority.

And a heck of a lot of people in this country live on such a salary.

Karnash your business about "go see how people live" isn't precise. Everyone knows that Israelis live on overdraft far beyond the level of their salary. They eventually pay for it out of inheritence, or every six years if they have a keren hishtalmut, the NIS 50'000 to NIS 70,000 that they get from their keren totally disappears while covering their overdraft.

And you seem not to see what I see all the time. People living very cheaply, from hand to mouth. Never buying clothing, never buying meat, their "meat" for the family is a turkey neck picked apart. People who don't get all the meds they need as it is too expensive. People who until there was free dental care for kids never took their children to a dentist as they coudn't afford it. People who didn't bake as they couldn't afford to use a kilo of sugar up just for that. People who went to the shuk at the end of the day to collect free fruits and vegetables for their family. People who don't have smartphones or even dumbphones as they can't afford it. People who never send their children on a school trip as they can't afford it.

Lots of places in the country and even in major cities where people live like that.

Tamiri

Mon, Feb 04 2013, 2:05 pm

freidasima wrote:

And you seem not to see what I see all the time. People living very cheaply, from hand to mouth. Never buying clothing, never buying meat, their "meat" for the family is a turkey neck picked apart. People who don't get all the meds they need as it is too expensive. People who until there was free dental care for kids never took their children to a dentist as they coudn't afford it. People who didn't bake as they couldn't afford to use a kilo of sugar up just for that. People who went to the shuk at the end of the day to collect free fruits and vegetables for their family. People who don't have smartphones or even dumbphones as they can't afford it. People who never send their children on a school trip as they can't afford it.

Lots of places in the country and even in major cities where people live like that.

FS, those are the poorest of the poor.

freidasima

Mon, Feb 04 2013, 2:37 pm

No Tamiri, today they are unfortunately a growing group and sector in this country. That's how the lowest three asironim live and some of the fourth. Do you realize what that means? That 30% of the country lives like that. That 40% of the country live almost like that.

That's a tremendous amount of people. As long as there are people who needs jobs and won't be eligible for continuous unemployment as in some countries, that situation is going to last. Because employers are into getting as much work out of their employees as possible for as little pay as possible.

Jobs that once had a straight salary are now paying by the hour to avoid giving benefits other than mandatory pension.

Jobs that once had tenure such as secretaries in government offices have cut tenure and new employees now work on a "chozeh meyuchad".

Lots of places outsource and still use "avoda kablanit".

And there are still lots of people who take such jobs as otherwise they couldn't find a job where they live.

Tamiri

Mon, Feb 04 2013, 2:49 pm

[align=right]המוסד לביטוח לאומי שיעורי גמלאות לחודש
מינהל המחקר והתכנון ינואר 2013
\MAVO.DOCלחיהJ:\A_Mehkar\LOTSHARE\IDKUN\january2013\
III
3. השכר הממוצע כמשמעותו בחוק הביטוח הלאומי

השכר הממוצע, המשמש לבסיסי הכנסה בגבייה, בסיס למבחני הכנסות (כגון לוח ט'),
חושב מחדש בחודש ינואר 2013 .
השכר הממוצע עפ"י סעיף 2 לחוק (נוסח משולב תשנ"ה), יעמוד בחודש ינואר 8,828 2013
ש"ח לעומת 8,619 עד כה, דהיינו גידול בן %2.4. שכר זה מתבסס על נתוני השכר הממוצע
למשרת שכיר בחודשים אוגוסט עד אוקטובר 2012 בסכום ממוצע של 8,724 ש"ח.
לממוצע זה נוסף מקדם פריסה עפ"י החוק בשיעור של %1.19.

כמו כן חושב בחודש זה השכר הממוצע עפ"י סעיף 1 לחוק, המשמש למטרות אחרות
כגון: עדכון שכר הבכירים, שכר מינימום וכו'. שכר זה יעמוד בחודש זה על 8,724 ש"ח
לעומת 8,503 ש"ח עד כה - גידול של %2.6. שכר זה מתבסס על ממוצע השכר החודשי
בתקופה אוגוסט עד אוקטובר 2012

Karnash

Mon, Feb 04 2013, 3:05 pm

What is your point FS?
Of course the bottom 3 asironim are living very poorly - that's what bottom 3 means - they are earning much less than the average.
Most clerical jobs that I am aware of do not require a degree - a secretary in kupat cholim does not need a degree - where do you get that information? A person with a degree may have an advantage when applying, but I would hope that she's taking that job as a starting point and sees room for upward mobility. If she is not upwardly mobile, maybe she has reached the limit of her capabilities - degree or no degree.
People with degrees or advanced degrees who stay in low paying gov't jobs stay there for a reason - the benefits and security that you can't get in private business or industry, the pensia taktzivit that they don't want to give up, or they're just comfortable with the long coffee breaks and low-pressure atmosphere in many gov't offices.
You can give all the specific examples of people you know who illustrate your points, but that doesn't prove anything - just as I can tell you about my ozeret who took her son on a safari to Kenya for his bar-mitzva, and that doesn't mean that she's in an upper asiron.

ora_43

Mon, Feb 04 2013, 3:19 pm

Not everyone wants to earn more. I know many people who are in the bottom 20% in terms of salary because they are disabled or because there's a language barrier, but I can also think of several who are employed only part-time by choice because they want to spend more time with their young children, or want to spend more time learning Torah.

FS I'm surprised you keep saying that we on imamother must be in an anglo bubble because we think most Israelis are better off than they actually are. Isn't it usually the opposite? I'm sure there have been threads in the not so distant past where you said that we on imamother are in a low earning kollel/immigrant lifestyle anglo bubble and that's why we think Israelis are worse off than they actually are.