This system isn't working for me

lavender_dew

Thu, Mar 21 2013, 10:22 pm

My grandmother just told me this story the other day: One day early in their marriage my grandpa innocently said to her, "I wonder what you do all day. I'm not saying you don't do anything. I just can't imagine what you do." At this point they had 3 kids under 3. So the next day my grandmother fed the kids breakfast, lunch, etc. But did nothing else. When grandpa came home and saw the mess that happens all day (unmade beds, dishes, toys, laundry, etc), he never asked again what she does.

OP, does your husband know how hard you're working? More importantly, have you ever clearly asked for help (I.e. specifying "can you please sweep up the kitchen")? Sometimes men just have absolutely no clue what it takes to run a home. I'm 9 mos pregnant and for the first time in 4 years my DH just offered to help prepare for Shabbos. He made some chicken and actually said "whew" when he was done. I told him "imagine having to prepare all the meals by yourself". You HAVE to speak to your husband otherwise things will never change. Find some way to get him to see all the work you do from your point of view, otherwise you will just be resentful, stressed out and angry. Hatzlacha.

amother

Thu, Mar 21 2013, 10:32 pm

BusyBeeMommy wrote:

As much as I agree with everyone about the importance for DH's to do their fair share, it usually doesn't happen. DH's usually end up "helping" more than taking half of the responsibilities. For example, my DH will help tremendously in making Shabbos, getting the kids dressed, bathed, fed, grocery shopping, etc. But at the end of the day, it is my orchestration and organization that gets everything in place when it's needed. I pull it all together, and make sure each piece of the puzzle is in its proper place. The responsibility of it getting done often falls on my shoulders, even if I ask for and get DH's help.I think that the only thing that's his sole responsibility is paying the bills. And all of my friends, relatives and acquaintances concur; I have yet to find a woman tell me that her DH is equally responsible for the household and childcare duties. They've even done studies on it and found that women still bear the brunt of those duties despite working as many hours a week as their DH's.

Do I like it? No. Do I get resentful? At times. My DH is tremendously involved and helpful. But it's probably not gonna change. So I accept it.

And take a break from it for a few days a year to get my bearings.

While more still falls on most women (not all!), it has changed a lot over the years and can change further. I do know of couples where the DH does as much or more at home, though none of them are frum. My own DH does much more than me.

BusyBeeMommy

Thu, Mar 21 2013, 10:48 pm

Wow amother at 9:40 you must be the envy of your entire city!

I also wanted to tell you OP that it is possible to train your DH into picking up more of the tab of chores, but it has to be done nicely and patiently. Just think about yourself easing into your role as a married woman, and then as a mother. It didn't all happen at once and you didn't gain the skills you have overnight. So don't expect it to happen with your DH either.

When I started school, I eased DH into cooking dinners slowly, and now he has a repertoire of dinners that he can make. It took time but he can do it now. Don't yell at him and try to hide your disappointment if he doesn't get it right away. Just be encouraging and show confidence in him. Otherwise he can get turned off and not want to help at all.

iluvy

Fri, Mar 22 2013, 1:00 am

cs1 wrote:

To amother above. Why?
I would feel a lot more resenful if dh just sat on his tuchos all day.

Sigh. Why do we always have to go through this? Learning in kollel is hard. Very hard. And also very meaningful and productive in a way that you might not appreciate, but that people who choose to live this life do. Please try not to be offensive.

OP, there have recently been some interesting articles about this, e.g.--
Spouses shouldn't try to split household tasks exactly evenly

Mrs Bissli

Fri, Mar 22 2013, 1:38 am

A few tactical points, hopefully trying not to be too patronising on men/husbands.

I find you'll often have to give very specific instruction to my DH.

A person can be motivated with positive feedback and praise. Thank and appreciate his work even if it's not up to your standard. Practice makes perfect.

In our house, we have a basic rule: the one who cooks does not have to clean up (and vice versa).

OP, just out of curiosity, how do your DH's parents split the housechores? Did he grow up in a home where his mother would do everything and his father pitches in little? You do need to communicate mutual expectation straight. And if your DH was hypothetically working, you'll probably have more financial leeway to hire external help. Though it's good you get satisfaction/zchut from your DH's learning, kol hakavod.

Tablepoetry

Fri, Mar 22 2013, 2:04 am

amother wrote:

BusyBeeMommy wrote:

I agree. Also, it took me a few years to figure this out, but I finally realized that it's best to leave the jobs that are most important to dh for him to do. So for example, it's very important for my dh that there's good food on shabbat, so he does most of the shabbat cooking. For me, it's more important that the house is clean and tidy for shabbat, so I concentrate on that. I'd go crazy if I had to do both.

Husbands develop talents with experience, just like women. I know quite a few husbands (including my own) who have taken over the shabbat cooking and are better at it than their wives.

amother

Fri, Mar 22 2013, 2:21 am

abby1776 wrote:

I work very long hours. My DH stays home, does all shopping, all cooking, all cleaning (I keep telling him to hire a cleaning lady but he is too cheap).

When I am home I try to help out as I am able with laudry, loading and unloading the dishwashers, setting the table, watching the children, etc.

But as I am only really home right before shabbos starts until Monday morning, I dont really do a lot and I am not about to spend my previous time home cleaning toilets.

OP, this mother makes a good point. In her relationship with DH they have an arrangement. She works extremely hard - im assuming consulting/advisory? But in order for her to be able to do that kind of a job her DH really needed to step up.

I am in a similar situation and having this same struggle with DH. I work long hours, working on a masters, do all the shopping, cooking, and things around the house. Good think we have a housekeeper or I would lose my mind. I give DH small tasks and he forgets and blaims me for it saying he wasnt paying attention she I told him and I should have known - or I should have sent him an email about it. Hes unemployed. Granted looking for a job very hard with 2 ivy league masters degrees (that im paying off) but unemployeed.

I have come to realize that yes men are programed like this to an extent. They see their fathers do this, their mothers do it, their rabbis do it and think its ok. ITS NOT. When my husband was in law school it felt like the whole world bent over backwards for him. Everyone allowed him to be in a rotten mood and not help because he was so busy. Then he tok the bar and got another free pass. Now its over and hes unemployed...but yet he things he is still on that free pass. He has been trained to think this behavior is ok. Its self involved. He doesnt realize it its just been the way hes been trained his whole life. We have had some big talks abotu it and he understands he needs to do more it just doesnt seem like he knows how/what. We are starting with small tasks and specific jobs. I suggest you do the same and sit down wiht your DH and explain this is not ok and its not fair. and no nonsense form him about learning being so draining and he cant blah blah blah. NO not ok. Doing everything is draining. OR one thing I did. work, take care of DS and thats it. no more cleaning no more cooking, no more shopping (except for you and DS). eventually he'll get the message.

amother

Fri, Mar 22 2013, 8:39 am

amother wrote:

My husband does practically everything and he does it well. I am extremely fortunate. I make the majority of meals including Shabbos. If I don't cook it is not a big deal. He will cook or we will go out. We split the time being responsible for the kids. I am a sahm. He gets up 4:00 every day. He is still hard at work otherwise I would kiss him and thank him.

I'm a sahm too. dh does a lot as well!! he does most of the grocery shopping (I fill in), cleans the kitchen every night, takes care of parnassah, learns everyday, and if I ask him to do anything he helps me. for shabbos he cleans the kitchen and dining room. I, generally, take care of the children and always cook fresh meals. I take care of the rest of the cleaning and all the laundry, but many times procrastinate. embarrassed

I'm soon going back to work, though.

amother

Fri, Mar 22 2013, 10:04 am

I agree that most of the house hold things fall on me while my dh 'helps me out'
im currently a sahm and my dh is out for the entire day.
I take care of all childcare (we have 2) things, feeding, changing, lunch bags, dropping off/picking up, supper.
I do ALL the cleaning (by choice, my dh is not clean/neat)
my dh takes care of ALL bills, insurance, fixing things, car issues, paper organization (his personal fav lol) and he does bathtime, and vacuuming!

im pretty much ok with this set up, bc I am the one at home, so in my head it makes sense I take care of the day to day homely stuff.
as we grow older and communicate better I have gotten much better at asking for help. I used to struggle to ask for help with bathtime, and once I said something it became his job, praise the lord.
its all about communication!!!
men aren't wired the way we are. many of them dont notice messes, and don't notice that you are struggling, many of them (mine included) dont realize the details of children's schedules.
you have to spell things out. dont assume or imagine anything.

amother

Slategray

Fri, Mar 22 2013, 10:45 am

I am a kollel wife to and I did not expect it to be this hard.

sometimes I feel exactly how op feels. dh is always running to yeshiva and I have to take care of everything else. I work part time, take care of ds, cook, clean and pay bills.

I started getting resentful from dh, all he does is learn!

I NEED HELP. and that is exactly what I told him.

I started cutting down and not being the perfect housewife that I was and now dh helps me.

you have to explain yourself VERY well. tell them exactly what you want done and exactly when they should do it.

Last edited by amother on Sun, Jan 03 2016, 9:04 pm; edited 1 time in total

gold21

Fri, Mar 22 2013, 11:14 am

BusyBeeMommy wrote:

A husband doesn't have to do exactly half the chores, and he doesn't need to be the one organizing everything either. He simply needs to take responsibility for the jobs that are chosen as his jobs, and not view them as "helping my wife with her jobs cuz I'm such a nice guy". No, they are HIS jobs. He is not doing his wife a favor. He is doing what he is responsible to do.

Tablepoetry

Fri, Mar 22 2013, 11:26 am

gold21 wrote:

BusyBeeMommy wrote:

This. Exactly.
And I know many, many men who have learned how to do many jobs around the house expertly. It's very common these days.
Most men I know do all the grocery shopping, btw.

amother

Fri, Mar 22 2013, 11:31 am

Wow, thank you so much for responding!! I really needed to hear all this...

When I was writing this post I felt like I was going to explode, my house was flying (pesach is coming), I had a deadline to meet at work, my son was crying and DH was in the bathroom ( his hour vacation Wink

) and at that moment I felt like everything is my responsibility: the house, taking care of my son, working etc!
The truth is DH helps out, he cleans the dishes and kitchen...

After having a long talk with DH I realized there is a lot more to my situation right now.
I work from home and my son is with me, keeping me busy a large percent of the time which makes me behind at work so I end up working most of the day, giving me no time to do my daily task: cooking cleaning etc. Right now my son doesn't take bottles so giving him to a babysitter is not an option...
Also since I work from home my clients think I am always available, they call me at crazy hours with crazy deadline and since I am terrible at saying "NO" I am overloaded with work...

I loved the idea each spouse should do what they like, I'm going to have to figure how to divide that B'H DH likes to clean! When I spoke to DH I removed one responsibility, the dishes. I think more important for me than dividing task is dividing responsibilities, since If I have too many, I crash!

I would love to hear from more people, how they manage. DH also wanted to know Wink

(I don't want him to think I'm the only one not managing)

The crazy part, I really don't want to get out of the system, I just need to make it work since deep down I know DH is great at what he does...

THANKS everyone!!!

amother

Fri, Mar 22 2013, 11:33 am

smile22 wrote:

OP here,
I really appreciate your honestly, I'm glad I am not the only one!
We need to make it work!

gold21

Fri, Mar 22 2013, 11:41 am

amother wrote:

I can tell you right now that there is a zero percent chance that I would be managing if I was working from home full time while at the same time mommying full time plus doing all the housework. And I am a competent person B"H. So please tell your husband that many competent women would be falling apart in your situation.

How do full-time working moms manage? Firstly, many women have their kids at a babysitter so they can focus on work while they are working. Secondly, many women have cleaning help. Thirdly, many women have husbands who do a lot around the house.