I am a SETTLER - ask me anything

Tamiri

Sun, Apr 21 2013, 11:00 am

Brooklyn isn't EY. We have an obligation to settle the land. Some people are more willing to go further than others to this end. They are rewarded with the most stunning vistas, fresh air and amazing neighbors. We travel out there sometimes (mind you, I am known as a settler too but that's a joke) and are envious of their quality of life. The fact that there may be some crazies wanting to harm them.... there are crazies all over the place. These people are so set in the Emuna that the crazies don't and won't bother them. One day, they will hopefully have nothing more to worry about, something GOOD will happen.
But, as long as you haven't been here and see the topography, there is no way for you to understand what I'm talking about. That's a shame.

ora_43

Sun, Apr 21 2013, 11:10 am

marina wrote:

I don't live in dangerous areas of Brooklyn for the reasons stated above and, to be consistent, I don't agree with those people who live in those places.

But I'd guess there are areas of life where you'd trade risk for benefit. If you had a child who really loved rock climbing or surfing, would they have your encouragement to pursue that interest? If your child, as an adult, wanted to go volunteer with (say) engineers without borders, would you not support them?

Or even just little things - would you insist on driving a teen child everywhere, or let them walk, or even drive, themselves? Will your kids have an 8 p.m. curfew through high school? Do you home school them, or let them go to a school where they might make friends with kids who some day encourage them to use drugs? etc.

Everything's a trade. For some people, the trade they make is to live in a cheaper and slightly more high-crime area, even if it's slightly less safe, in order to afford more living space or better education. For some people the trade is to live in a community that's very close-knit and has values they agree with but is slightly less safe. Why would that be less legitimate than any other tiny reduction in safety that parents go along with for the sake of a long-term benefit (such as independence, enjoyment, health, whatever).

Tamiri

Sun, Apr 21 2013, 11:11 am

marina wrote:

Okay, so the settlements are not more dangerous than other places.

Great. Why, then, do I constantly get updates and FB posts about the rockets and how children are traumatized and can't go to school and how America is ignoring these harms? Why, if it's all peachy and safe do people complain about the dangers and the injuries and the evil Arabs?

And really, fear doesn't teach hatred? How is that possible? I just don't see it.

First of all... those rockets? They were launched towards cities: Eilat (not a settlement), Sderot (not a settlement), Rishon LeZion (not a settlement), Haifa (not a settlement)... should I go on? The wicked people trying to hit us are trying to annihilate ALL Israelis. They don't have a particular agenda against settlers. Some go to work on cities, some go to work outside Israel, some go to work against "settlements". It's nothing personal. Settlements are just beautiful living areas outside the major cities, where there is a high quality of life. No traffic, no smog, no noise pollution. They happen to be in areas that certain people decided to call their own, when those people never had claim to the land! You don't hear Jordan asking for it back. Just some rabble rousers who found an easy target: Jews settling the land. This story has repeated itself since the early 1900s. Once things are going good for the Jews, the wicked people want a piece of the action. And when they GET a piece of the action (demolishing Gush Katif), they go on to ask for more.
So, Jews just get with the program, live their lives and love where they live.
Where do you see children are traumatized and can't go to school? I can think of a few places: Ramat Beit Shemesh, thanks to crazy attacks by wicked people, not Arabs, on Jewish school girls. Sderot, and so on where rockets fall on houses and kindergartens and schools (Sderot is a city in the Northern Negev, not a settlement by any stretch of the imagination). Children in "settlements" LOVE to go to school. No problems there AFAIK.
People complain about WICKED Arabs trying to HARM people going about living their lives. Throwing rocks on a major highway... well, that's wicked and that's something to complain about. Drive-by shootings (which sadly occur in cities as well, but that's the underworld at work) are wicked and something to complain about, and so on.
But it's not everywhere and it's not all the time. The benefits of living in a "settlement" compared to living a mundane city life, apparently outweigh the dangers.
I guess you can sort of compare it to living in New Hampshire on a homestead vs. living in Manhattan. How much would a person be willing to take to avoid living in Manhattan? A lot, I think.

ora_43

Sun, Apr 21 2013, 11:15 am

marina wrote:

Great. Why, then, do I constantly get updates and FB posts about the rockets and how children are traumatized and can't go to school and how America is ignoring these harms? Why, if it's all peachy and safe do people complain about the dangers and the injuries and the evil Arabs?

And really, fear doesn't teach hatred? How is that possible? I just don't see it.

I'm not sure where you're seeing people say that everything is peachy and safe. There are dangers; they are just no more dangerous, statistically speaking, than the dangers elsewhere. Judea and Samaria have a lot more rock and firebomb attacks on the highways than most places, but a lot less violent crime within communities than most places. Overall it usually evens out.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't be furious with people who deliberately try to harm others, or that we shouldn't work to make things even safer. Or that things will continue to be no-more-dangerous-than-elsewhere if we wave off the current dangers and don't try to address them.

(ftr, I'm not a 'settler,' except to the degree that anyone with a denim skirt and mitpachat is considered a settler in the public eye)

eta - Fear can lead to hatred, but it doesn't have to. It's something to be aware of. I don't see this as a specifically "Israeli" issue given that there have been Muslim terrorist attacks in many countries, including America. Everyone has to learn someday how to walk that line between unfair stereotyping and ignoring real religious/sociological connections.

etky

Sun, Apr 21 2013, 11:38 am

[quote="m in Israel"]

marina wrote:

r
I don't live in a "settlement", but statistics definitely back up the concept that settlements are not any more dangerous than anywhere else in Israel, under the current circumstances. There have not been a higher proportion of attacks/ injuries/ murders on those in the settlements. In recent years attacks in the south and terrorist attacks in major cities have far outnumbered attacks in roads in Judea and Samaria. I would be more nervous living in Beer Sheva or Ashdod then Efrat, for example.
.

That is definitely the lesson of the past 10 years or so. And also demonstrates how futile the disengagement from Gaza ended up being (as if that couldn't have been foreseen....) And let's not forget the shelling and devastation of the entire north, including Haifa, during the Second Lebanon War. It's just a matter of deciding which dangers you can live with. I don't belittle anyone's hesitation about coming out to the Gush in the same way I wouldn't want my nervousness about spending Shabbat in Ashkelon (we were there for Shabbat Hagadol) or my wariness riding the bus in Jerusalem to be poo-pooed. Better the devil you do know....

Miri1

Sun, Apr 21 2013, 11:44 am

etky wrote:

StrongIma wrote:

what I meant to say is that "settling" imo shouldn't only refer to "across the green line", anymore than TA blood is any redder than yours. We're all settling EY. There are remote spots with less conveniences than you have, although in "EY proper" as well as others that moved from the US to less convenient locations years ago that now have all the conveniences, but back then they were truly roughing it. Besides, one of the things that makes your yishivim such pleasant living is their proximity to Y-m and the Merkaz, and you would be pretty lost without these cities - so I think the recognition should and can be to both sides of the fence.

StrongIma- ITA.
'Settler' is a pejorative term used by the media to differentiate between Israelis living in 'legitimate' Israel and those living in the 'illegitimate' settlements across the Green Line and whose blood is therefore cheaper than other Israelis. I hate the term. Its very use conveys a political opinion that disparages those of us living Yehuda and Shomron. I much prefer the term 'mityashvim'. And I agree that everyone living in E"Y is in essence a 'settler' - in the positive sense of course, w/o the 'land grabbing' connotation.
Peanut - when will you be in Efrat?

I can't bring myself to use the word "settler", I"d rather be a little more convoluted and say it the long way: "living in Yehuda and Shomron". I don't use the term "West Bank" either. That was concocted by the British.

chani8

Sun, Apr 21 2013, 11:45 am

marina wrote:

I don't live in dangerous areas of Brooklyn for the reasons stated above and, to be consistent, I don't agree with those people who live in those places.

Dont you think a more reasonable response would be for the govt to clean up those areas and make them safer? That makes a whole lot more sense that leaving them to implode, explode, or be taken over by the bad guys. There are innocent people within those borders who would like a normal life too. Why should the bullies get to win?

Tamiri

Sun, Apr 21 2013, 1:33 pm

Miri1 wrote:

I use the word jokingly. Settler evokes a couple, him with a beard, long tzitzit maybe shepherding (I do know one such guy) and he, stereotypical long skirt, mitpachat etc.
Farthest from the truth with regards to the settlers I know. Many if not most are white-collar university grads or working in Chinuch. Some are professors. Some are MKs or hold other governmental positions. They do tend to have larger families than a typical Israeli family with 6 - 8 kids being the norm (4-5 in more "modern" settler homes). Many have come of age, and financial stability and go to chu"l, help their kids, take vacations in hotels and fix up their homes. Many others don't, of course. But anyway, as I said, most of those I know would not be tagged as "settlers" in the street.

etky

Sun, Apr 21 2013, 2:18 pm

Tamiri wrote:

Miri1 wrote:

Actually, for me, the word settler evokes a prairie wagon, a woman in a gingham dress and bonnet and a musket-toting man in britches. Think Laura Ingalls Wilder. Manifest destiny anyone?

chanchy123

Mon, Apr 22 2013, 2:32 am

The term "settler" doesn't bother me, I'm with the praire image, myself when I hear the word. Tachles, that's what we are - we are settling the land of our forefathers. In Hebrew it's even more apt, since that is the term used in the Torah to inheriting the Land of Israel.
The term was first coind by the first people to try to settle the land over the Green Line after the Six Day War and was a positive term. Only later had it become somewhat deragatory by the media. I use it all the time, as do most people I know, it's factual not judgmental IMO.

A side note, we like playing Settlers of Katan and use the Hebrew term המתנחלים של קאטאן even though the official name is (the non "political") המתיישבים של קטאן it's just so more apt to be מתנחלים Wink

We even dressed as the Settlers of Katan on Purim last year.

hila

Mon, Apr 22 2013, 2:48 am

I am joining this discussion a little late. I had surgery on my hand last week (Carpal tunnel) and only had the plaster removed last night.

I too, am a settler. (if you count Efrat as a settlement. Since the Arabs consider it such - I guess we are a sttlement).

We moved because of education, qualitly of life, ideals, and price (at the time).

I dont regret it for one minute. We love living in Efrat - it is community, something I found lacking in Jerusalem, and there is real Chesed. We really care for each other. And my kids grew up in the atmosphere of a Yishuv Dati.

We do not have an acceptance committee, but a large proportion of the town are shomer mitzvot, and there are almost no cars on Shabbat. There are strong religious youth movements. All ceremonies are done in accordance to halacha.

In my shul there are a lot of different standards... from the young marrieds who seem to like wearing a wide headband, to Sheitals and everything in between. Some men wear suits on Shabbat - some with ties, some without.

Life is not perfect. My daily commute is a pain, even with the car, as there are often traffic jams on the way to and from Jerusalem. We still have no pool, no theatre(we use the sports hall for ceremonies, and performances) . Walking involves lots of hills, and public transport is not good. We will ahve to reconsider where we live as we get older. Right now my mother cannot come to visit - as we have steps to our house and inside too.
There is no local protected living . yet.

My kids, so far are spread about, - Eli, Beersheva and Lod. However I hope the firsdt two will move nearer when they finish studying. Housing here is expensive for a young couple, and we cannot help them too much...

DrMom

Mon, Apr 22 2013, 2:56 am

marina wrote:

This has to be one of the few times I just don't "get" what you are trying to say.

What would you think about people who are lobbing rockets at Jews, trying to harm as many civillains as possible, and cheering in the streets when they achieve their goal? Of course we must teach our chidren that these people are our enemies, and that their intentions are not good. They can probably figure that out for themselves.

Prentending otherwise is what usually leads to real danger.

Are you suggesting that Jews should only live among people who like them? Maybe we should just curl up and die, so as not to offend anybody.

etky

Mon, Apr 22 2013, 3:09 am

chanchy123 wrote:

We even dressed as the Settlers of Katan on Purim last year.

You're totally right about the etymology of "mitnachalim" but I've developed an allergy to the word over the years because of the hate and spite that inevitably accompanies its use. I especially despise its use by the media when used to report a pigua since the subtext generally reads "they had it coming to them since they are (just) mitnachalim" . I prefer the more neutral "mityashvim". English, as one might expect, is less nuanced in this regard.

marina

Tue, Apr 23 2013, 2:03 pm

DrMom wrote:

marina wrote:

I'm just not going to care about the Jews who are in harm's way. Because, as you all are saying, it's not really more dangerous and it all evens out. So please stop whining about the danger from the Arabs, it's just as bad as in Brookly or in the bad areas of Cleveland.

And I suggest all people with kids live in peaceful places, if they can, Jews or Native Americans, or the Chinese. And that they not live where their kids will learn to fear enemies. It's not really that outrageous of a proposition, is it?

marina

Tue, Apr 23 2013, 2:06 pm

ora_43 wrote:

marina wrote:

I don't live in dangerous areas of Brooklyn for the reasons stated above and, to be consistent, I don't agree with those people who live in those places.

If my child wanted to, as an adult, do anything dangerous (serve in the army, be a policeman), I would do my best to discourage him or her. If that fails, I would support them wholeheartedly and do everything I could to help keep him or her safe.

Everything is a trade, exactly. So what are the settlers trading for? The safety of their kids and the ability to raise them in a peaceful environment for... political and religious ideology? That's what I'm judging- that trade.