kind of in shock right now!

amother

Tue, Apr 23 2013, 12:47 am

I have just started doing this volunteer work..helping an elderly lady to use her computer, once a week in her home. Today was only the third time I visited her. Everything has been going ok, she does ask me lots of questions which I feel are quite personal, but I just give her the benefit of the doubt and think she is trying to be friendly with me. By the way, I am 22 years old and she is 93.
She has already asked me all about my family, if I have a boyfriend and various other things and she also tells me I am a pretty girl and often says random things like you look lovely today and do you like perfume and that my hair looks really pretty. Ok, slightly odd I thought, but maybe this is her being friendly again fine.
Today she asked me what does my father do for a living. I told her he is an economist. She said she wants to know more about him and what his name so she can see him on the television.
By the way, she is religious, her family was charedi although her parents died in Auschwitz.
Today she said to me that she is reading this book called the rabbis daughter and she couldn't put it down all weekend it is really naughty and then she gave it to me to look at, I was like ok but I found it really weird why is she was doing that.

Anyway, out of interest I put her name on the internet and I found some information (articles from the 70's) about a woman with exactly the same name (and her name is not that common), and it says that she was a "madam" who ran a ring of call-girls for prominent British men. According to what I found, there was a well known "call - girl scandal" with a member of parliament who used her services and there is a lot written by one harlot who had an affair with a politician and talks about how this "woman" was her "madame". She was also arrested and released on bail after it was found out.
I really understand that this might just be someone else with the same name but I can't help thinking it might actually be her - especially as today, she said to me she knew a lot of famous people, with an odd expression. Why else would she know a lot of famous people since she told me she comes from a poor family and she came here as a refugee.

Obviously I cannot be sure it is her but I feel it really could be because of some feeling I get. She is a religious woman and always asking how frum I am etc but this was a long time ago and I feel kind of disturbed by this. I'm not saying I am going to stop visiting her but if it is true what she did, it's just awful. how would you feel about this? Should I just convince myself that it's not her?

DrMom

Tue, Apr 23 2013, 12:53 am

If you are getting weird vibes (I know I would if I were you), I'd ask to volunteer to help someone else. You have enough signals here that you can trust your instincts.

FYI, here is a description of "The Rabbi's Daughter." It definitely contains some racy material, and yes, it does discuss lesbianism:

http://www.amazon.com/Rabbis-D.....41431

Whether or not she was this famous madame: Is her name very common? Do other details of her life history (where she lived and at what time) match up with the details of this famous woman?

BTW, what is an unmarried 22-year-old doing on imamother?

Last edited by DrMom on Tue, Apr 23 2013, 12:55 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Tue, Apr 23 2013, 1:08 am

DrMom wrote:

I don't think her name is that common, and with regard to her life history, I don't know that much because although she asks me many questions, she doesn't tell me much about her. In fact, today I asked her do you have grandchildren (which I don't think is personal compared to what she asked me) and she said no, she does not have children, so I felt sorry I asked. But from what I read, this was in the 70's and that does add up, since she was born in 1920, and would definitely have been in this country by then.

Frumdoc

Tue, Apr 23 2013, 5:48 am

She is old. She is lonely, otherwise she wouldn't have a volunteer helping her with computer stuff once a week.
She is frum now. She is curious about what a young frum girl thinks about the world she has seen change beyond belief in her lifetime.
What doesn it matter what she did in the past? Unless you are really interested in her, not judging her, then this sounds like a big streak of inappropriate loshon hora building up.does it affect what you do for her?
If you can't handle that an old lady may have had a past you can't possible hope to appreciate from where you stand, leave her and volunteer for someone else. Personally, I would love to meet her, and find that people who have led interesting lives are basically far more interesting. And have more wisdom and understanding and tolerance and just plain old enjoyment to share. Send her my way, I'm sure I could learn plenty from her. And enjoy the company too.

mimivan

Tue, Apr 23 2013, 5:58 am

If you honestly dont' feel you can handle it, have someone else volunteer. But I would encourage you to keep helping her. However, there might come a time when she might want to open up about her past life, and you have to gauge whether or not you can handle it. It's a tough one. She deserves chesed and understanding just like anyone else. However, she might need someone who might have a therapy or counseling background, or might have been through a few things so they don't respond to her with judgment or shock in case she has a need to unburden herself (Her hints tell me she might).

Is this in Israel, America? Somewhere else? (there is a reason I'm asking)

amother

Tue, Apr 23 2013, 6:00 am

Frumdoc wrote:

I'm not judging her I will carry on visiting I was just disturbed that's all especially as this well known harlot was a jewish girl and I think anyone would be taken aback like me but of course I cannot judge her and will try to pretend it never happened, that's what I asked

mimivan

Tue, Apr 23 2013, 6:02 am

amother wrote:

Frumdoc wrote:

What I'm saying is maybe she needs someone to help her who will be less shocked? Perhaps someone with a therapy background or has been through a difficult experience of a similar nature in life? Because as I said, she might want to unburden herself...it seems she is on the verge of it.

DrMom

Tue, Apr 23 2013, 6:05 am

sister wrote:

Trust your gut amother and listen to what your inner voice is telling you. I don't like the way people are responding to you, dismissing your concerns etc.
If you don't feel safe or if you think she is violating your boundaries that is something that needs listening to, regardless if she is 93 and a holocaust survivor.

I agree.

I think if she were a MALE 93-yo Shoah survivor the responses you received would have been more emphatic.

mimivan: It doesn't sound like this woman wants to "unburden herself." It sounds like she is hitting on the OP.

mimivan

Tue, Apr 23 2013, 6:11 am

DrMom wrote:

sister wrote:

I didn't take it as "hitting on" her. I took it as, if she was indeed a former Madam, this is the way she is used to relating to girls (as potential merchandise). This might be emotionally toxic for the OP. Someone who is a counselor or who has dealt with difficult situations before might be qualified to handle it.

amother

Tue, Apr 23 2013, 6:40 am

When she said that she knew famous people it did not seem to be in a guilty way, to me, perhaps I was wrong, but it was more a statement (how it seemed to me). Also, that is exactly right the way she comments on my appearance does strike me a little odd, I would understand her telling me I am pretty once, but the comments on my hair, perfume etc, make me feel that she is used to relating to girls in this way. Again I could be wrong, it may be she is just wanting to compliment me, but all I am saying is it seems to back up what I read. I actually feel that I would not be surprised if it is her because of various things I mentioned. And why she showed me that book is very strange why would she do that to me. Again, I am not judging her I am just expressing the surprise that I felt on seeing this as it was nothing I would expect to find. With regard to seeing a therapist, I doubt she would do that she seems to be more comfortable with me (she actually has my number but has not called me) and most of the time she asks questions about me rather than talking about herself.
Again I am NOT writing this to judge her and I understand she is lonely which is why I am happy to visit and everyone has a past but I simply was not expecting it to be this, especially since she is a religious woman who wanted to know how religious I am etc.

amother

Tue, Apr 23 2013, 6:45 am

mimivan wrote:

DrMom wrote:

sister wrote:

she doesn't want to see a counsellor

amother

Tue, Apr 23 2013, 7:09 am

I can see it from both sides, first of all if you feel anything, you should absolutely trust that feeling and if you feel uncomfortable you are perfectly within your rights to feel that way, with regard to the lady, obviously she had been severely damaged by all that she had seen, losing her parents in that way etc, and she effectively lost her head. I also feel it is very disturbing and although she may not express to you, I don't see how she can't be riddled with guilt about being associated with this. If she is this woman it definitely explains the way she behaves to you (I find it hard to believe an old lady would talk to a young girl like this otherwise), obviously she is stuck in that mode of relating to girls and doing that would give a person many sordid experiences which would stay with them for life. She probably doesn't mean to make you uncomfortable. On the other hand, it is wrong to judge somebody on something they did when they were a different person and/or because of life circumstances/experiences. I find it hard to believe that she doesn't feel any resentment, she must have a conscience, especially if she is religious. So it's only fair to be the bigger person and regard her the way you did before you found this out. Maybe you were sent to her for a reason for her to establish a relationship with someone in a pure and authentic way..
And on the other hand, if you feel really uncomfortable in this situation and feel you cannot continue, then you are also perfectly within your rights to do so and I TOTALLY understand.

amother

Tue, Apr 23 2013, 8:36 am

wow, that's unexpected. I don't think you should completely ignore it, but maybe just push the thought to the back of your mind and just focus on helping her and that's it, however if she continues being a little weird then maybe send her a few signals that you're feeling uncomfortable. she could also just be having a little fun with you when she asks certain questions, I've noticed that elderly people tend to be more free with their speech without thinking how it comes across.
I would just view it that everyone has a past. It is who she is now that is important. It doesn't change the reason you are visiting her, her past is private and so is your life..if she asks you questions steer the subject away or say "actually, don't be offended, but I am a private person and very rarely share things about myself with others. I would much rather hear about your experiences, I am sure they are a lot more interesting than mine".
Just concentrate on the job you're there to do, she sounds quite lonely and probably just likes to chat.

naturalmom5

Tue, Apr 23 2013, 9:05 am

mimivan wrote:

amother wrote:

Frumdoc wrote:

Like maybe someone with a drop of , I don't know . MATURITY