Is it REALLY a Mitzva

greenfire

Mon, Feb 26 2007, 11:56 am

Ima'la wrote:

What is he drinking? People don't usually get as out of control if they are only drinking wine, and the mitzva is only with wine. There is NO mitzva to drink any other kind of booze - and mixing drinks is often what causes the vomiting.

I wish I knew what he was drinking ... since he is my good boy - I worry.
He was with his yeshiva collecting and whatever it was that he was drinking the problem is when he fell on his face he was abandoned - a rebbe saw him and left him by his father's house hanging over a fence blacked out his face bleeding. I know. This definately is horrible and my son needs to take responsibility. But the unknown is that is somebody blacks out they could go into a coma and die. So why are the yeshivas demanding boys stay with them and then they get drunk anyway and c"v worse could happen - what then. I don't mind if he drinks a beer - but I do not appreciate the level of intoxication and where it could lead and the look-the-other-way denial that the yeshiva has. ... like shimmysmom said they are undertaking this mitzva with too much zrizus and losing out on other mitvos in its stead.

JRKmommy

Mon, Feb 26 2007, 12:13 pm

Skip any lectures or nagging and go straight to the essential safety info:
http://www.collegedrinkingprev......aspx

Drinking is fine on Purim. It's one day a year, and it's done in a particular setting. Getting a little drunk is fine.

That said, there is no excuse for not taking basic safety precautions. Obviously, no one should be anywhere near a car. People need to have a safe way of getting home. No one intoxicated should be left alone. You som needs to read the link I attached, know that vomitting can be a problem if he passes out and chokes on it, and that alcohol poisoning can potentially be fatal. There is no mitzvah to drink to the point of endangering one's life.

rainbow baby

Mon, Feb 26 2007, 12:25 pm

Personnaly I do not have a problem with men drinking but not throwing up all over the place that revolts me. What I have a problem with is Yeshivah Bocurim drinking untill they are so far gone that they behave like complete jerks. One year we had some Bochurim coming around collecting it was going okey untill on the way out one of them saw a picture of the Lubavitch Rebbe and he started screaming and banging and spitting at it. My brother and a friend had to manhandle this individual out. This is not the spirit of Purim it's disgusting behaviour. I also have a problem with underage kids drinking so many of them go out collecting and it is very surprising how many households give these kids alcohol, so obviously these kids are mixing their drinks and I really feel sorry for their parents as so many of them come home ill. It is up to both parents, teachers and the people who's houses these kids are going to, to be responsible. If these kids look underage then give them soft drinks why give them alcohol?

greenfire

Mon, Feb 26 2007, 12:37 pm

I think if someone is this ois mentschlich he will be no matter sober or drunk - this is part of their disgusting attitude and lack of respect - it just comes out more vulgar when drunk.
I definately think it is wrong to give out drinks to the yeshiva boys or any other boys for that matter - especially under age. Sitting by the seuda and making a l'chaim is understandable to a point - not over the limit

Ruchel

Mon, Feb 26 2007, 1:09 pm

greenfire wrote:

Why is it that men think it is a mitzva to drink till they are under the table vomitting and do not help their wives - it drives me crazy. It also bothers me that bochurim go around collecting tzedaka and also drink till they are sick. This to me looks like a chillul Hashem. I feel the need to instill in my son that this is inappropriate - yet he feels that he knows better. Last year he got sick and I do not want a retake ... advice please

I agree with you.

I was always taught the mitsva was to rejoice, not to be drunk - unless they need to drink in order to rejoice, which shows imho a bigger problem.....

Motek

Thu, Mar 01 2007, 11:54 am

Ruchel - there is definitely a mitzva to rejoice but there is also a mitzva to drink until you don't know the difference between "cursed is Haman and blessed is Mordechai"!

Shimmysmom wrote:

what seems wrong to me is that this "mitzvah" is often undertaken with the most enthusiasm, often at the expense of other mitzvos.
are you really so frum or are you just looking for an excuse to have a good time?

Do you ask the same question about the Purim seuda and mishloach manos? Do you question the enthusiasm, time and effort that women (look at the threads in this section) invest in thinking of menus, cooking and eating, themes etc.

TzenaRena

Thu, Mar 01 2007, 12:12 pm

Motek, don't you know about the "not more than four before the age of forty" gezeirah that the Rebbe declared under no uncertain terms? The Rebbe said that those who are oiver on this shouldn't go on his shlichus (the tahalucha). On Purim, by the farbrengen the Rebbe said the bochurim should be yotzei adeloyada with yeinah shel Torah. And also by the farbrengen, the Rebbe said someone should be motzei the whole oilam with adeloyada, so a few individuals volunteered, and they were all over forty.

There is now a fuzzy re-interpetation going around that the Rebbe excluded Purim from this gezeirah, but my husband remembers the above statements from Purim farbrengens, and not only one time either! And he thinks the "pshat" that some are trying to learn from a reference to Purim in the sicha in Elul, 5751 as though this might be batel for Purim is like other "pshetlach" that people say in the Rebbe's words, which we know the Rebbe said NOT to make "pshetlach" from his words.

momofgirls

Thu, Mar 01 2007, 12:19 pm

"I think a man can have a day vacation from helping thier wives. I want my husband to! he deserves it! "

When does a wife get a vacation???? Is a women not entitled to a break????????

DH gets drunk every year and he told me that he didnt' want to get drunk this year so he can help me with the kids. But I told him not to worry, but he doesn't get drunk to the extent of vomitting he is just really comical.

amother

Thu, Mar 01 2007, 2:51 pm

Elie Wiesel tried to keep up with the Rebbe's drinking once:

"[At m]y first visit to the [the Rebbe's] court...I had informed him at the outset that I was a Chasid of Vishnitz, not Lubavitch, and that I had no intention of switching allegiance.

'The important thing is to be a chasid,' he replied. 'It matters little whose."
..

"One year, during Simchas Torah, I visited Lubavitch, as was my custom...

'Welcome,' he said. 'It's nice of a chasid of Vishnitz to come and greet us in Lubavitch. But is this how they celebrate Simchas Torah in Vishnitz?'

'Rebbe,' I said faintly, 'we are not in Vishnitz, but in Lubavitch.'

'Then do as we do in Lubavitch,' he said.

'And what do you do in Lubavitch?'

'In Lubavitch we drink and say lechayim.'

'In Vishnitz, too.'

'Very well. Then say lechayim.'

He handed me a glass filled to the brim with vodka.

'Rebbe,' I said, 'in Vishnitz a chasid does not drink alone.'

'Nor in Lubavitch,' the Rebbe replied. He emptied his glass in one gulp. I followed suit.

'Is one enough in Vishnitz?' the Rebbe asked.

'In Vishnitz,' I said bravely, 'one is but a drop in the sea.'

'In Lubavitch as well.'

He handed me a second glass and refilled his own. He said lechaim, I replied lechaim, and we emptied our glasses. After all, I had to uphold the honor of Vishnitz. But as I was unaccustomed to drink, I felt my head begin to spin. I was not sure where or who I was, nor why I had come to this place, why I had been drawn into this strange scene. My brain was on fire.

'In Lubavitch we do not stop midway,' the Rebbe said. 'We continue. And in Vishnitz?'

'In Vishnitz, too,' I said, 'we go all the way.'

The Rebbe struck a solemn pose. He handed me a third glass and refilled his own. My hand trembled; his did not.

'You deserve a brocha,' he said, his face beaming with happiness. 'Name it.'

I wasn't sure what to say. I was, in fact, in a stupor.

'Would you like me to bless you so you can begin again?'

Drunk as I was, I appreciated his wisdom....

'Yes, Rebbe,' I said. 'Give me your brocha.'

He blessed me and downed his vodka. I swallowed mine--and passed out."

All Rivers Run to the Sea, Elie Wiesel, pp. 402-4

southernbubby

Fri, Mar 02 2007, 2:20 pm

In this week's Jewish Press there is an article called Forum Against Drunkenness on Purim (pg 65-Mar 2). The Task force on Families and Children At Risk and Flatbush Hatzoloh addressed a public forum recently to warn of the dangers of drunkenness. Apparently Hatzolah personel spend the night of purim cleaning vomit out of ambulances and running people who are dangerously drunk to the ER all night. Rabbi Abraham Twerski spoke that one should drink a little more than usual on Purim but not to the extent of chillul Hashem. Someone who passes out from drunkenness needs medical treatment according to Hatzolah officials.

TzenaRena

Fri, Mar 02 2007, 2:30 pm

greenfire wrote:

How am I supposed to show my son this now - he will definately have an excuse!?!?!?

The Rebbe clearly said that bochurim should be yotzei adeloyada with yeinah shel Torah - (which is Pnimius haTorah.) Eli Weisel is not a bochur now, and wasn't at the time of the story posted either Wink

over forty is NO problem - the gezeirah is only up till age of forty.

What southernbubby writes rings true, because the takanah of the Rebbe allows up to four small (shot) glasses of mashkeh. That's enough to make anyone a little happy!

Motek, I really appreciate that story. I'm picturing it, anything E. W. writes is a portrayal, amazing!