Why do we have children?

amother

Wed, Oct 02 2013, 10:27 am

Somthing that jumped out to me from this thread is that we basically all have children out of selfish reasons (it's our goal, it's our fulfillment, it's our life, we want to give,it's our happiness...).
Isn't it selfish then to have children?

amother

Wed, Oct 02 2013, 10:58 am

I just told my husband:
I don't see the point in having a large family of children [12 children and up LOL

]
So he answered me:
פרו ורבו. The end. This is what the Torah tells us to do - whether you understand it...or not.

blueberries

Wed, Oct 02 2013, 11:03 am

amother wrote:

I just told my husband:
I don't see the point in having a large family of children [12 children and up LOL

]
So he answered me:
פרו ורבו. The end. This is what the Torah tells us to do - whether you understand it...or not.

Wow! Thats fine just make sure your husband earns enough money to cover the cost of living.

smiledr

Wed, Oct 02 2013, 11:13 am

I think by nature pple are givers. We work hard so we can give to our children. Everything I do, it's to make their lives better and give more than I have. I don't want a dozen kids but I have healthy beautiful children and I know they'll be close and appreciate each other when they are older. Only children make me sad / I think everyone needs a sibling.

the world's best mom

Wed, Oct 02 2013, 11:48 am

amother wrote:

We like to feel happy when we give to others because of how unselfish we feel. Giving unconditionally is not selfish, even if we do often get joy from it, and even if we crave the privilege to give of ourselves to our children. A selfish mother would refuse to give her children anything, and not gain pleasure from the ability to give so much to our kids.

sequoia

Wed, Oct 02 2013, 12:22 pm

amother wrote:

That's very Kantian of you. His ideal was the benevolent misanthrope who derives no pleasure from doing good and only does it because it's his duty.

Tablepoetry

Wed, Oct 02 2013, 12:28 pm

amother wrote:

I actually always thought this way. Except for a very few people who have children just because they believe they must (ideology), most people have kids because they want to fulfill a need of their own (even if it's the need to love their own offspring).

I always laugh when people say those who refuse to have children or have less children are 'selfish'. As if the reasons most of us DO have kids are selfless.

loves kids

Wed, Oct 02 2013, 9:50 pm

Reading everyones posts makes me laugh so hard!!! We are ALL going through ups and downs with parenting. It's something we need to constantly work on and improve. I wanted to mention that there's a beautiful sicha from the Lubavitcher Rebbe on this topic on Parshas Noach - what hashgacha pratis! To say it in short, after the mabul, the 1st mitzvah Hashem commanded Noach was not tikkun olam, but peru urvu!!! bc it's the most important mitzvah!! The rebbe writes many reasons why ppl do birth control, and proves that each reason is a lack in emunah and bitochon from Hashem. It's HASHEM that chooses who should have children, and how many and when. It's Hashem who gives us the parnassa possible to provide for them, and it's Hashem who gives us the strength to raise them!!!! And, he adds that every neshama that we bring down from shamayim brings with it a huge channel of brachos for our entire family!!! Who wouldn't want that?? Just daven that Hashem should continue giving us the strength and we should raise beautiful and healthy yiras shamayim family with good midos and be shining dugma chayos for everyone that they come in contact with!!
It's also important to see what each child needs. Each child is so different, and requires different forms of love, discipline etc. You can't treat them all the same.

amother

Wed, Oct 02 2013, 9:57 pm

Ditto to isramom8. Last but not least, there exists a storage of neshamos that need to b brought down before mashiach comes. Each child u bring to this world brings us closer to the geula. Hashem knows how hard it is for u now but think of how proudly u will greet mashiach when he comes

BP Lady

Wed, Oct 02 2013, 11:55 pm

amother wrote:

I just told my husband:
I don't see the point in having a large family of children [12 children and up LOL

]
So he answered me:
פרו ורבו. The end. This is what the Torah tells us to do - whether you understand it...or not.

Well, tell your husband that Pru Urvu means having one boy and one girl, period.

amother

Thu, Oct 03 2013, 12:33 am

BP Lady wrote:

amother wrote:

I just told my husband:
I don't see the point in having a large family of children [12 children and up LOL

]
So he answered me:
פרו ורבו. The end. This is what the Torah tells us to do - whether you understand it...or not.

Well, tell your husband that Pru Urvu means having one boy and one girl, period.

Not according to many poskim. Many hold that this mitzvah has to be done throughout ones life.

ruxadin

Thu, Oct 03 2013, 5:29 am

My neighbor who lost her daughter after a long and difficult battle with a severe illness just reminded me that every child's neshama is a "tipah mishamayim" - a droplet from heaven. You just have to remind yourself to see the good in them and the light in them, and then they will see that in themselves and act accordingly. If you see them as a bother to your freedom, they pick up on the vibes, see themselves as a bother or unloved, and act the part.
Try to do something for yourself once a week, take a class, take a walk someplace pretty, get a manicure, something to feel fulfilled. If you fill yourself up on the inside, you'll have what to give. If you're depleted, you can't give and the negative cycle I described above takes over.
We've all been there. You just have to break the cycle and step out of the current pattern. It may even only start with a smile or a genuine hug or compliment. Try it! Good luck!

amother

Thu, Oct 03 2013, 9:34 am

Tablepoetry wrote:

amother wrote:

And it doesn't make you feel a bit.. I don't know,,,guilty? I always wonder how we can decide to bring a kid to this world, just because we want a kid when it's such a selfish act?
BTW I do have kids and what I tell myself is that though I don't have an exact answer to why it's ok to brinrg kids for my selfish reasons- the best I can do is give them the best life I can possibly give and hope that by the time they realize how selfish it was of me to bring them to life they will be grateful for being alive (unlike some people who wish they were never alive).

Tablepoetry

Thu, Oct 03 2013, 3:13 pm

amother wrote:

Tablepoetry wrote:

amother wrote:

And it doesn't make you feel a bit.. I don't know,,,guilty? I always wonder how we can decide to bring a kid to this world, just because we want a kid when it's such a selfish act?

No, I don't feel guilty. It is what it is. It's a natural urge, but it's not a selfless one.
Just because something requires a ton of work and lifelong investment doesn't mean it's selfless.

A selfless thing to do would be to adopt an older child or special needs child who really needs a home.

ora_43

Thu, Oct 03 2013, 3:30 pm

Tablepoetry wrote:

A selfless thing to do would be to adopt an older child or special needs child who really needs a home.

I think even that not only can have, but should have "selfish" motives, if taking joy in caring for and loving another person is selfish.

amother wrote:

And it doesn't make you feel a bit.. I don't know,,,guilty? I always wonder how we can decide to bring a kid to this world, just because we want a kid when it's such a selfish act?

I think it would be a mistake to write off anything that people get some enjoyment from as selfish. By that definition, pretty much anything anyone does is selfish. Giving charity? People do that because they feel good about themselves when they give - selfish. Doing something nice for one's friend? People do that because they enjoy their friendships - selfish. Etc.

It's only bad-selfish to do something if it's bad for the other person. And I think that on the whole, most people are glad they were born, so as long as you're able to give a child decent care it's not bad-selfish to have one.

ima25

Thu, Oct 03 2013, 11:24 pm

It does not get "easier;" it changes from physically torturous to emotionally torturous. The financial burdens are incredibly - what's a word for more demanding than demanding? Raising children is an excersize (I don't know why I can't spell that correctly) in (nearly) complete self-sacrifice.
Really I feel like there is a spell HaShem casts on us as parents to have these kids, because the passion and overwhelming love, pride I feel, the way my heart absolutely swells when watching my kids - at all stages and ages - is my reason for having kids. And I wish I could have a lot more! Thankfully, sanity has a bit of a hold still on me and when I consider bringing another into the hoard, I remember the amount of investment each individual needs, and good judgement (?) prevails. Sadly, my brood will remain as they are numbered until they bring me grandkids.
One day, one nap, one manicure at a time is how you get through it.
A good glass of wine every once in a while helps, too.

BP Lady

Thu, Oct 03 2013, 11:50 pm

amother wrote:

BP Lady wrote:

amother wrote:

I just told my husband:
I don't see the point in having a large family of children [12 children and up LOL

]
So he answered me:
פרו ורבו. The end. This is what the Torah tells us to do - whether you understand it...or not.

Well, tell your husband that Pru Urvu means having one boy and one girl, period.

Not according to many poskim. Many hold that this mitzvah has to be done throughout ones life.

Many poskim? how about you show me them?

The mishna says in Yevamos about a machlokes between Beth Shamai and Beth Hillel, if Pru Urvu means that you need to have two boys, that is the shita of Shamai, and Beth Hillel says that one must have a boy and a girl to fulfill the Mitzvah.

What's funny is that the obligation of Pru Urvu doesn't even apply to us women, it's a mitzvah on the men, therefore if the woman is on some form of birth control according to most poskim it's permissable, since the woman doesn't have a chiuv to even have the first 2 children.

What poskim do say, and that's where your mistake probably stems, is that if a person can, and it's within their limits, they should have more kids, but it's not an obligation, just a "Hidur Mitzvah".

ima25

Fri, Oct 04 2013, 12:07 am

The pleasure we get in raising children, or teaching children, or any seemingly "selfless" acts is the guarantee for HaShem that we will continue doing so. We get pleasure from these behaviors so that the world will continue and that the world and its inhabitants will be cared for by humankind.
It's a "reward" for doing the right thing.
How many times would a man cohabit with his wife if it wasn't as extremely pleasurable for him to do so? Pleasure = perpetuation of the species.
Sorry to be so crass, but that is how HaShem created us.
We are selfish pleasure seekers.
So go do what you have to, and be sure to reward yourself!

amother

Fri, Oct 04 2013, 2:03 am

BP Lady wrote:

What's funny is that the obligation of Pru Urvu doesn't even apply to us women, it's a mitzvah on the men, therefore if the woman is on some form of birth control according to most poskim it's permissable, since the woman doesn't have a chiuv to even have the first 2 children.

A man is obligated to get married because of pru urvu. A woman is not. Once a couple gets married, the obligation is on the couple, the woman as well as the man.