Why do we have children?

amother

Fri, Oct 04 2013, 1:59 am

ora_43 wrote:

Tablepoetry wrote:

A selfless thing to do would be to adopt an older child or special needs child who really needs a home.

I think even that not only can have, but should have "selfish" motives, if taking joy in caring for and loving another person is selfish.

amother wrote:

And it doesn't make you feel a bit.. I don't know,,,guilty? I always wonder how we can decide to bring a kid to this world, just because we want a kid when it's such a selfish act?

I think it would be a mistake to write off anything that people get some enjoyment from as selfish. By that definition, pretty much anything anyone does is selfish. Giving charity? People do that because they feel good about themselves when they give - selfish. Doing something nice for one's friend? People do that because they enjoy their friendships - selfish. Etc.

It's only bad-selfish to do something if it's bad for the other person. And I think that on the whole, most people are glad they were born, so as long as you're able to give a child decent care it's not bad-selfish to have one.

I think the difference is that with charity / adoption etc. you are absolutely helping another person while with having a kid you CHOOSE for them and make then needy (of you)- while the poor is needy to begin with , this child you decided to have wasnt

Tablepoetry

Fri, Oct 04 2013, 3:04 am

amother wrote:

This. When you adopt a needy child (not a baby that everyone wants), you are helping someone in dire need. That's selfless, even if you do get some pleasure out of the act.

When you decide to have a baby, you are creating a need that doesn't exist, to satisfy your own desires. That's a selfish motive, IMO.

Isramom8

Fri, Oct 04 2013, 3:33 am

It depends. If you think of a child as a neshama waiting to be placed in a body in order to be born into this world and achieve its potential, then you're a partner with Hashem. Selfish isn't the Jewish way of looking at the merit of being a mother in Israel.

Also, Hashem tells us to populate the world. Fulfilling Hashem's commandments is a mitzvah. Any mitzvah can give us pleasure. Hashem intends it to. When our goal is avodas Hashem, the actions we do that give us pleasure are elevated to being not all about us.

Isramom8

Fri, Oct 04 2013, 4:15 am

One of my friends says, "I don't ask myself why I do it. The same way I didn't ask myself why I wanted to be married. It seems the way of life to me."

I think that's a good point. Having children is the way of the world. We question nature too much.

Hashem makes nature. Hashem tells us how to channel our natural impulses. Go with the flow of nature and Torah.

imaima

Fri, Oct 04 2013, 4:24 am

amother wrote:

Somthing that jumped out to me from this thread is that we basically all have children out of selfish reasons (it's our goal, it's our fulfillment, it's our life, we want to give,it's our happiness...).
Isn't it selfish then to have children?

Of course it is selfish. Women have something called motherly instinct that's why they usually want children, at one point of their life. Men don't have that that's why they have the mitzvah of pru u rvu. So what? Why not do something that is a mitzvah and enjoy it too? Why do you think everything needs to be a sacrifice?

I am sure no child will blame their parent for bringing them to life. The instinct of survival is in charge of that Wink

groisamomma

Fri, Oct 04 2013, 5:34 am

Isramom8 wrote:

I think this way, and I know most people do. The way of the world is to get married and have kids, just as one grows up and gets a job. Obviously this has changed over the years with all the societal changes. It is the exception when a woman stays a spinster until old age, not the norm, just as it is the exception (generally) for a woman not to bear children her entire life by choice.

Ruchel

Fri, Oct 04 2013, 6:59 am

amother wrote:

BP Lady wrote:

What's funny is that the obligation of Pru Urvu doesn't even apply to us women, it's a mitzvah on the men, therefore if the woman is on some form of birth control according to most poskim it's permissable, since the woman doesn't have a chiuv to even have the first 2 children.

A man is obligated to get married because of pru urvu. A woman is not. Once a couple gets married, the obligation is on the couple, the woman as well as the man.

This is not what I learned. I learned it's still on the man. But of course a woman who can't or refuses to get children should be upfront about it in shidduchim

Frumfemme

Sun, Oct 06 2013, 5:22 pm

Hashem lends us especially OUR children, because we are the perfect parents for them, where they can best let their neshamas unfold and joyfully fulfill mitzvos.

When things go badly, I remind myself how much worse it would be for them if I had not been blessed to have them with me.

When things go really badly, I tell them Mommy needs a time out, and she does a quick 5 minute cry off, cool down, crying out to Hashem for help.

I hope things get better for you...and gnow that the Ebishter should give you all the peace and patience you need to be the wonderful mama you already are.

Hugs.

Jewishmofm

Sun, Oct 06 2013, 9:13 pm

Just a thought here . . .
We have children to increase k'vod shamayim by increasing the amount of mitzvos done and torah learned.

on a tangent, there is no mitzvah pru urvu on women as no mitzvah asks one to endanger their life. (and yes, childbirth even in today's day and age can be a danger to the woman.) I don't mean endangering your life to do the mitzvah as the external situation is dangerous (communist russia, holocaust,etc) but that the mitzvah itself is dangerous.

we've got 6 under 10. And each of them is learning to do mitzvos and love torah, as best as we can tailor it for them. That's the job description, anyway.