Spinoff: shielding single women from 'married' topics

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amother

Fri, Oct 25 2013, 10:02 am

The thread about joining Imamother while single is something I've been wondering about for a while. Why is it that we fell we need to hide 'married' stuff from single women? Like they won't get married if they know about labor, or bad mikvah experiences, or the fact that divorce exists in the frum community? I am sorry, but as an 'older single GIRL'- whatever GIRL means- I hated this attitude. I remember a relative mentioning the word 'VBAC' to me and then clapping her mouth in horror over her mouth and apologizing profusely for discussing the issue. I was like, "Lady, I'm in med school. I've delivered more babies than you will ever birth, and, for that matter, have done plenty of GU exams on men too. But please, keep my innocent ears sheltered."

I just don't get it. I got married in my upper 20's and never got why the frum world babies single 'girls' to the extent that it does. I can attest to the fact that I did not acquire a new brain when I got married, nor did I magically acquire the ability to do things like cook cholent. (Before I was married, I was met with incredulous looks from my married acquaintances when I told them that I frequently hosted many people for Shabbos meals. "Really? You cook for Shabbos?" No, cooking a meal and setting a Shabbos table is a skill best left to those who posess a kesubah, actually. Is that really what you think?)

Really, what is the source of this married/single dichotomy? How can we make it go away? How can we make married people, for starters, not use the words 'girl' and 'boy' when referring to single women and men in their 20's+?

Sorry, this is a pet peeve of mine (can't you tell?) that was inadvertently referenced on that thread.

Anon since I've told that unfortunate VBAC story to a lot of people.

sequoia

Fri, Oct 25 2013, 10:22 am

I agree with you entirely.

MommyZ

Fri, Oct 25 2013, 10:24 am

I agree.

naturemom

Fri, Oct 25 2013, 10:27 am

I agree with you except for the fact that intimacy is discussed here often. And no matter how informed a single woman is she should still not have access to that.
In addition I believe that reading about the many abusive marraiges detailed here could make a single much more nervous and wary of finally comitting to get engaged.

causemommysaid

Fri, Oct 25 2013, 10:30 am

I agree somewhat. It depends on the person.

There are some really sheltered guys/girls out there and it would be very weird to discuss mikvah or other "married" topics with them. They just kind of give off that vibe. Usually they slowly lose that vibe the longer they are married. Other singles are worldly and open and you can talk to them about anything regardless of whether they experienced it personally or not.

sequoia

Fri, Oct 25 2013, 10:31 am

Ha, maybe a single woman should be able to join if she is a BT.

amother

Fri, Oct 25 2013, 10:41 am

naturemom wrote:

OP here-

Re: your first point. Why not? Should we clap her hands over her ears when we lein the arayos or whatever other portions of the Torah discuss these issues? The Torah doesn't censor intimacy with a disclaimer, why do we feel the need to for ADULT women?

Regarding the second point, I couldn't disagree more. These are issues. They are real. You can hear about them while single and if anything, it gives you something to be weary of when you are dating, and maybe some of the warning signs that abused women lament that they ignored while dating would be picked up more easily by a more cognizant woman. And, it happens to be, I had many single friends who were counselling abused women as part of their therapy practices while single. Let them do it professionally, but Heaven forbid they join Imamother and hear about it from the internet, you know.

Also, why do you assume singles need to 'finally commit to get engaged'? Many are fully committed to the concept of marriage but just haven't found the right one. I know that was the case with me.

amother

Fri, Oct 25 2013, 10:46 am

It's hard enough on women going through IF to see some of the topics here. How do you think singles will feel?

Cookies n Cream

Fri, Oct 25 2013, 10:51 am

amother wrote:

naturemom wrote:

I definitely think there is a difference between the Torah mentioning intimacy ans the intmacy threads here. .

.

bigsis144

Fri, Oct 25 2013, 10:52 am

amother wrote:

It's hard enough on women going through IF to see some of the topics here. How do you think singles will feel?

Their choice to join a site called Imamother.

Sensitivity is wonderful, but most women (and in this I include single "girls") are not so fragile.

naturemom

Fri, Oct 25 2013, 10:56 am

The torah most certainly does NOT discuss orgasms and messes and other other graphic details.
I hope you dont think I was referring to the facts of life.
Perhaps some singles would handle just fine reading about abuse and molestation and all kinds of horrific things. But many would become afraid. I have a friend who is still unmarried who has gradually become more cynical and commitment phobic ever since she was educated about the evil out there.
It is alot easier for women to marry young when they still view the world of marraige as a rosy happy place.
I know that had I known how complicated marraige can get and the kinds of evil men I might have ended up with I would have become much more wary of agreeing to marry any man. Who can know if he might turn out to be abusive or a pedophile?

And you cant live like that. Not when you are in the dating scene.

Bruria

Fri, Oct 25 2013, 10:57 am

I think it would actually be good if single women knew more about the reality of married life! Some girls end up getting married without knowing what it will really mean! Knowledge is alwaaays a good thing!!!

medola

Fri, Oct 25 2013, 10:58 am

Is there really a mass of single ladies knocking on imamothers door, trying to join?
If there really is a need, then I don't see why they should be not allowed in.

Think of it this way. Remember when Facebook was for college students only? I joined in my senior year of high school as soon as was assigned my @bu.edu student email. Then a few years later they let everyone and their mother join. Sure it was a little weird at first but now we all get along in the FBuniverse. Everyone has their own circle of family and friends and their own groups, likes, etc. So, why not expand imamother to single gals too? (Maybe even a section for DHs while we're at it?!) Set age restrictions and then have specific forums like the Intimacy forum or perhaps the forum or Gorey Graphic Birth Stories threads be something you have to apply for access to once you get married?

I mean, why shouldn't a single 25 year old have access to the discussions on best OOT communities to move to, or career advice, recipes, fashion, health, family, etc - heck even the shidduch section!?

And then they would have all these amazing imaladies here for them, as the awesome resources we are. ;-)

No need to be so elitist about being married...

Just my dos pesos.

amother

Fri, Oct 25 2013, 11:08 am

bigsis144 wrote:

amother wrote:

It's hard enough on women going through IF to see some of the topics here. How do you think singles will feel?

Their choice to join a site called Imamother.

Sensitivity is wonderful, but most women (and in this I include single "girls") are not so fragile.

I'm not knocking anyone here, just saying that it's hard for the IF women. They manage if they're still hanging here. There's still a lot that's relevant for them.

PinkFridge

Fri, Oct 25 2013, 11:09 am

Medola, you have some interesting points if the requirements for forums can be set up as you suggest. But I don't know if I want an imamother that's going to be flooded with some of the threads that might come up that don't now. I have to think about it.

sequoia

Fri, Oct 25 2013, 11:10 am

Medola, I agree with your sensible suggestion.

However, Yael would never allow it. Many people would leave if there were never-married girls on here. Think of how they keep their own kids sheltered. They wouldn't be comfortable discussing anything.

PinkFridge

Fri, Oct 25 2013, 11:11 am

Sequoia, leave aside the sheltering issue.

Last edited by PinkFridge on Fri, Oct 25 2013, 3:53 pm; edited 1 time in total

zaq

Fri, Oct 25 2013, 11:12 am

Oh, goodness, OP, I wish you'd have used your sn; I'd have enjoyed some good PM conversations with you. Loved your line about delivering more babies than this woman would ever birth. Totally agree with the absurdity of calling an adult human female a "girl" and treating her like a 6-year-old just because she's single at 25, or 35 for that matter, while giving a dewy-eyed 18-or-19-year-old who happens to have a plain gold band on her finger access to--well, everything.

sequoia

Fri, Oct 25 2013, 11:12 am

Why can't you spell my name right Sad

dimyona

Fri, Oct 25 2013, 11:32 am

I also don't get it. The frum world seems to view marriage as a mark of adulthood. I still get annoyed when women in their thirties are referred to as "girls".

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