Situation in home life of DC's friend

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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Teenagers and Older children

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amother

Sat, Oct 26 2013, 9:36 pm

DC has a friend whose divorced parent is sleeping with fiancé. DH is against this friend because of the divorce situation to begin with. DC's friend is very casual about the fact the fiancé sleeps over. WWYD?

oliveoil

Sat, Oct 26 2013, 10:36 pm

Why do you need to do anything?

amother

Sat, Oct 26 2013, 10:44 pm

oliveoil wrote:

Why do you need to do anything?

My children are being brought up in a frum environment and the casual comments about them sharing a bedroom and taking trips together is shocking.

I don't want my children to accept this as OK. I want my children innocent.

My opinion about this household is now tainted. Do I share this with others whose children are being exposed to this?

angelinheaven

Sat, Oct 26 2013, 10:48 pm

Dont punish a child for his/her parents divorce or other indiscretions.

You can (privately) ask that child not to talk about his parents private lives while s/he is at your house or you can talk to your child and tell him that he doesn't have to believe everything he hears.

angelinheaven

Sat, Oct 26 2013, 10:53 pm

amother wrote:

oliveoil wrote:

Why do you need to do anything?

Interesting that you say that your children are being bought up in a frum environment yet you ask if its ok to speak lashon hara about someone else. Frankly, its no ones business what that couple is doing so stay out of it completely and keep other people out of it as well. Don't be the one spreading lashon hara about this couple.

Jewishmofm

Sat, Oct 26 2013, 10:58 pm

You want to keep your kids the way you've brought them up. Fine and good - help the friendship die without anything overt. As for other people, let them make their own judgement call for their own kids.

amother

Sat, Oct 26 2013, 11:01 pm

angelinheaven wrote:

amother wrote:

oliveoil wrote:

Why do you need to do anything?

You are allowed to speak LH of you are protecting someone. In this case I would have wanted this info before DC was friends.

DC being exposed to the acceptance of pre marital relations upsets me.

amother

Sat, Oct 26 2013, 11:08 pm

Jewishmofm wrote:

How do I do I help the friendship die? DC has already been exposed. The friend DC doesn't see anything wrong with casually talking about them sleeping together. I am not sure either DC understands what goes on behind closed doors yet. DH and the Rebitzen would tell me that they told me so. They were both against encouraging this friendship. I feel betrayed.

amother

Sun, Oct 27 2013, 12:03 am

amother wrote:

Jewishmofm wrote:

Don't allow playdates at their home or yours. If they play in school so be it. Don't encourage anything further.

amother

Sun, Oct 27 2013, 12:11 am

Not the OP.I agree with: Why do you need to do anything!!
Also, if the children are strong with their beliefs, nothing could affect them.We never know other people's reasons and we will never be in the exact situation of someone else! I think judging should come from Hashem.

angelinheaven

Sun, Oct 27 2013, 12:49 am

amother wrote:

angelinheaven wrote:

amother wrote:

oliveoil wrote:

Why do you need to do anything?

You are allowed to speak LH of you are protecting someone. In this case I would have wanted this info before DC was friends.

DC being exposed to the acceptance of pre marital relations upsets me.

How do you know what the truth is? Have you seen this couple act inappropriately or are you just going by what this kid is saying? How do you know that this kid is being honest? He might be making up stories because he is angry at his parents for divorcing/remarrying.
In regards to your dc, first how old is he? Has he never been exposed to anything outside of his frum environment I.e. never saw secular people doing things that religious jews wouldnt do? If he did see things outside of the frum environment then how did you deal with it?

Shana_H

Sun, Oct 27 2013, 3:02 am

amother wrote:

oliveoil wrote:

Why do you need to do anything?

You definately DO NOT share this with others, it's not your place to be the town crier, if you have a problem with your kids hanging out there you can stop them, but not other kids,

imasinger

Sun, Oct 27 2013, 3:21 am

amother wrote:

angelinheaven wrote:

amother wrote:

oliveoil wrote:

Why do you need to do anything?

You are allowed to speak LH of you are protecting someone. In this case I would have wanted this info before DC was friends.

DC being exposed to the acceptance of pre marital relations upsets me.

I'm confused. You say you wish you had been warned, but your DH DID warn you, no?

I am torn here. In a later post, you mention that not only your DH, but also your rebbitzin told you not to encourage the friendship. I was going to tell you that since some aspect of your question is halachic, you need to AYLOR. You probably still should.

I feel for you. In some sense, you feel that damage has been done to your DC's innocence, and you feel guilty for not having listened to your DH and rebbitzen earlier. Do ask the shaila, but since you posted it here, I'll add my 2 cents as well.

IME, teens are starting to think for themselves. As kids grow up and become more independent, parent protection changes. It is no longer possible to be secure that a teen is completely sheltered. The very best of camps and schools still have situations where teens can learn more than a parent might want. What can we do? We can TALK to our teens, asking them questions, and helping them frame their experiences.

Maybe something like, "Friend should not be talking about Parent's living situation like that; it's not appropriate. I hope someone can let Friend know that. If I have a chance, I'll try to say something."

Don't assume that either child knows anything concrete about premarital relations. Or that either one wants to. Generally, kids are grossed out to think of their parents' private lives. The fact that Friend mentions that Dad's fiancee is sleeping over tonight doesn't mean that there is any clue of anything other than a night's rest under the same roof.

You can also make sure to be there when this friend is with your DC. Teach your DC to be kind, but also self protective.

In terms of warning others -- I feel strongly that your guilt at not having listened to your DH and rebbitzin may be the cause of this idea. Please don't do it.

In this day and age, I think we can add children who are suffering from the upheaval of their parents' recent divorce to the list of those that Hashem specially protects. They are uniquely vulnerable. Causing them to lose their friendships and social network at such a time, and because of a parent's bad behavior rather than their own, is an affront, and those cries and tears will be quickly heard in shamayim.

smiledr

Sun, Oct 27 2013, 3:37 am

So this child should be punished for his parents alleged sins? How about instead of pushing this kid who is already a hard time welcome him into your home so he has a more stable environment.

amother

Sun, Oct 27 2013, 4:28 am

I agree with the above post. I agree with it because in this case, I think that would also reflect the best interest of your child. This is an excellent opportunity for you to teach your child right from wrong. this isnt a situation that needs hiding or isolating..what a terrible message for how we treat our fellow Jew! instead, let the friendship be and be there for your son to talk to. maybe he has questions about what this couple is doing and how they are 'allowed'. maybe now is a good time to teahc him that every person is on a different level of frumkeit...maybe this couple just isnt there right now....and that a child may be on a higher level in some areas than a parent which seems to be what is happening here....it doesnt make them bad it just means they may have lost their way a little bit...people like that need love and support from others more than ever.
if you want to raise a true blue jew, that would be how to do it. not to model for him how you cut someone out like cancer the second they do something you dislike or are even around others who do things you dont like.

Ruchel

Sun, Oct 27 2013, 4:30 am

I'm all for support, but this is not like a charedi person stopping cholov Israel either. And unless your child is in a clear kiruv position, it's a CHILD!

ellie23

Sun, Oct 27 2013, 4:41 am

let's not forget also, that children watch with somewhat of an egocentric eye. in other words, as he watches how you treat this boy, he will also be geting a glimpse at how you would treat HIM should he do anything unconventional by your standards. so by doing what you had original stated you were considering, your son may come to understand that you may isolate him as soon as he doens fit the mold...totally unintentionally you could be giving him a very frightening message...that your love is conditional!

Ruchel

Sun, Oct 27 2013, 4:44 am

I don't know. This is more than just unconventional. And you can let the child know we love everyone and pray for them (or whatever you hold by) but we do choose what we hear about in daily life.

freidasima

Sun, Oct 27 2013, 4:51 am

How old exactly is your child and the other child?
And what is a lot more disturbing to me was your first comment that your husband is against this friend milechaschila because his/her parents are divorced.

In general, does your family have a problem accepting divorce? Or was it this specific divorce? Why? Divorce is muttar in our religion and even suggested in various situations just to avoid problems of aroyos, mamzerus etc. that might come up is the couple remains married, unhappy and thus tempted.

Now for the situation you describe. You say the finace sleeps over. In the same bedroom? Are you certain? Did you see this? Is this child who is telling the story giving details? Is the family frum? Is the fiance frum? Is this an "eidus" that one can halochically rely on?

If you want to discourage the friendship for whatever reason it is your preroggative to do so, but ask yourself first why you are doing this, what "innocent" means to you and whether it's not an opportunity to teach your child that what goes on in other people's homes is no one's business unless it is hurting a third party, just like what goes on in your home with closed front door is no one's business unless it is hurting a third party. And maybe teach your child not to believe everything he/she is told either.

amother

Sun, Oct 27 2013, 5:15 am

Did it occur to you that the child is telling your child these things because they are having a hard time understanding and need someone to talk to and understand it on their level? What kind of home were they brought up in? To this who are thinking duh! Can't you tell from what they are doing? The answer is no. I'm a child who's parents divorced later and one went off and is living with a [gentile]. We grew up completely drum going to bias ya alive and yeshivas. My values are solid. Younger sibs not so much. But I can tell you if anyone I un-friended them bc of my parents choices I would get upset. You can discuss things with your child, help them understand, even let the other child know you can listen as well. But to cut off friends when they need it most? Seen that and all your doing is excommunicating a child for something way beyond their control.

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