Do your older daughters parent your younger children?

amother

Thu, Jan 02 2014, 12:58 pm

Today I was talking to a bunch of friends and one friend of mine said, in a funny manner (meaning she thought it was funny) that her daughter who is 11 said to her seriously, "please mommy, no more babies, I don't want any more work." My friend laughed saying that it was funny (she has 5 children). But the daughter changes diapers and gives baths to the babies and puts them to bed. My friend said that she had been changing diapers since she herself (that is, my friend) was 5 years old!

My sil otoh, has 9 kids, the oldest also being 11 and won't let her girls do anything (her oldest 4 are all girls) as she doesn't want them to grow up to fast. She won't even let them push the carriage. They all help - they go to the makolet, they help cook for shabbos, but no child care.

So where is that line between helping as part of the family unit and being a little mommy? Is there something wrong with having your 11 yo take part? How much?

Both stories were about 11 yo girls and their experiences were vastly different. I wonder how it will affect them having their own children.

lk1234

Thu, Jan 02 2014, 1:08 pm

that's a really interesting question!

I think it's important to strike a balance with children doing house work. I never demand that they do child care type stuff for me, but I do make requests.
Can you please hold the baby, change diaper etc.

If they don't want to honor their choice and never force them.
But when they do help, be thankful and quick to point out their kindness.

It sounds like the girl with 5 siblings is resentful. If I were the mother, I would back down. I would not give her work for a while because it sounds like she is slightly bitter.

There is a hint of truth in every joke (I forgot the saying-- but you know what I mean)

chocolate chips

Thu, Jan 02 2014, 1:11 pm

If you get your kids to help because they enjoy it (most times) then it won't become a resentment.
I used to bathe my little siblings and feed them and take them everywhere I went because I LOVED it. Diapers not so much.

My niece also LOVES to take care of her little sister but not to bathe her. So my sil does that.

I am very against having more kids just because you have older ones who can "help" or more likely "take oveR"

amother

Thu, Jan 02 2014, 1:13 pm

My husband is the oldest of 8 and he was, basically, the mother to numbers 5, 6, and 7 (he was out of the house when #8 was born). When we were dating, he told me he didn't want more than 2-3 kids - been there, done that - and he didn't want out older kids to have the same experience he had.

morah

Thu, Jan 02 2014, 1:51 pm

I started a thread about this recently. Personally, I don't think it's the chores per se, so much as how much it's interfering with the child's childhood. Changing a few diapers and giving a few baths here and there won't kill a childhood- aderaba, it imparts some important life skills. However, if this girls is doing it every night and getting the kids into bed, when is she doing her homework? When is she playing with friends- without a sibling in tow? And I am disturbed that the mother thinks this is some hilarious "kids say the darndest things" instead of recognizing it as a clear call for help.

That said, the other mother is doing her kids a disservice. Yes, let kids be kids. But kids eventually grow up and they need to be prepared. It is healthy for children to pitch in at home, again, as long as it doesn't interfere with school and normal kid socialization.

Last point: Why is it only for girls? I have kh two kids so far, both boys. I've gotten comments along the lines of too bad you didn't have a girl first, who's gonna help you around the house? Um, excuse me? Why can't I make my boys do chores? My two year old puts away his toys and sweeps the floor, and throws his garbage out. I'm training him to be a functional member of society- both outside the home and in. You're welcome, my future DILs!

amother

Thu, Jan 02 2014, 1:59 pm

lk1234 wrote:

OP here - the daughter wasn't joking, the mother thought it was funny.

zigi

Thu, Jan 02 2014, 2:09 pm

don't make them help, then they will want to helpful. my kids fight about who gets to push the stroller or who gets the windex bottle to clean- the like cleaning walls. its a privilege to be allowed to take out the boxes and garbage. I do sometimes need them to help find another kids shoe etc. make it a scavenger hunt who can find xyz or where do you think it will end up? I do ask them to bring baby wipes diapers etc. they run to see who can do it first. most of my kids are boys, k'yh.

I do expect things done on an individual level. did you put xyz in your backpack? please put your laundry in the correct hamper. throw out garbage. if you took out all the toys help put them back.

busydev

Thu, Jan 02 2014, 2:09 pm

I agree with morah.

the first mother better lower her demands of her 11yo. let her be a kid! if you want to have more children then YOU be their mother!!

the second mother probably should have her kid do a bit more....

There is a line between to little and to much.
I am the oldest of 8 (youngest born right around my 18th birthday) and while I did plenty around the house and with/for my siblings, my parents were very fair. I did (and do) not feel burnt out or taken advantage of. I loved doing stuff with my siblings, and the ones younger then me were also expected to help out with the babies.

I have a friend who was also the oldest of 8 (her youngest sib was born when we were 13) and she was totally burnt out and taken advantage of. She ran the house in the evenings after school. she got her license at the earliest possible moment and was given a car, but had to do all the shopping and carpools. Now she is spacing her kids out and not planning on having a large family.

I have one more friend...also the oldest of 8. her youngest sibling was born when we were ~16. She was expected to do very little around the house and had a pretty hard time adjusting to being married and having to keep house. She never changed a diaper except if she was babysitting. which wasnt that often.

(its cute but we are good friends-not just an acquaintance type of friend, we were a group us 3... all the oldest of 8 by the time we graduated high school. all with VERY different experiences)

littleprincess

Thu, Jan 02 2014, 2:09 pm

I was just having a conversation with a few of my friends today about giving a child some responsibilities. it's important for a child to learn to help, starting from small things
but I feel it's totally wrong letting them do too much. a child is a child. He/she may help clean the table, wash dishes, tidy up the room, even wash floor (depending on age), but giving responsibilities like bathing the little ones, changing diapers shouldn't be done on a daily base. that's my opinion. A mother is given a certain amount of strength to handle her duties, and if she can't, there's always the option to hire a cleaning lady, nanny, etc... and of course there's DH as well
a child has to go to school, learn, do homework and needs some time to play, read, socialize

yo'ma

Thu, Jan 02 2014, 4:48 pm

When I was young, I had a friend who was seldom allowed to go away for shabbos because she had to help. She's the second to oldest of 7 k'h. I thought it was so unfair, but she was fine with it. My parents didn't restrict us from going or doing anything because of our siblings, but we did help when needed.

Emotional

Thu, Jan 02 2014, 4:58 pm

I don't see anything wrong with asking an 11-year-old to entertain the toddler for a half hour or to help the 5 year old put on his socks, or to prepare a bottle for the baby. Etc. But I think diapering is a bit much. And it is so wrong to make a child stay home from social opportunities because they "have to help". The exception would be in temporary times of crisis ch"v.

imasinger

Thu, Jan 02 2014, 6:54 pm

I was glad I learned how to deal with my baby sister's diapers; it prepared me for babysitting a few years later.

My older daughters do parent their younger sibs at times (but are not forced to do so). Sometimes, more than I would like! Of course, the older ones were 22, 20, and 17 when the youngest was born. Smile

shlomitsmum

Thu, Jan 02 2014, 7:24 pm

They want to !

My older 2 are more like defense lawyers when we try to discipline the younger ones ("oh mommy is no big deal ..it's OK Y &Z spilled the oil and broke ALL eggs ..I will clean it up) .

I find it most irritating when they go over and start comforting a kid in trouble who is on time out ! that is the main conflict we have with the older kids (gap is 13 and 10 years ) older ones are 14 & 17 Wink

.

Diaper wise I change the diapers and wipe unless the kids yell :no not you , X ONLY ....X feels flattered and changes the stinky with a smile LOL

Poor girl in the OP post.... I feel for her future kids ,she sounds burned out. The bathing kids part I read kids do is crazy

In my house is a balance we all help each other but I am mum and the babies are MY RESPONSABILITY .

amother

Thu, Jan 02 2014, 9:17 pm

Until my youngest was born, all kids helped out, but none were expected to take more responsibility over younger kids. Diaper changes occasionally, babysitting, but not parenting.

Now I have a bat zikunim. Almost 10 year age gap between my 2 youngest. I am divorced. Working full time for the first time in my parenting life. My ex is not trustworthy at all. So all my older children have taken to caring for the baby. They get her up and ready for babysitter (I leave before they wake up), pick her up from babysitter if they get out of school before I get home from work. Feed her, change her, do whatever she needs. I get to be the night & weekend mommy. My ex only cares about visitation with the baby-is fine if no one else goes. But they always make sure that one of them is available to go along to protect her. (Yeah, it's unfortunate that she needs to be protected from her own father-for kashrus and health issues, not abuse).

I try not to leave it all on one child, but try to divide it among them all. None seem resentful. They are crazy about her. If they have been away, when they come home, they still walk into the house and the first thing they say is "where is the baby?"

busydev

Thu, Jan 02 2014, 9:56 pm

a common line my mother says "who died and made you mother?" when an older sib tries discipling a younger one.
ex:"sit down and stop chewing with you mouth open. NOW"
"who died and made you mother? im quite capable of taking care of the situation thank you very much"

ElTam

Thu, Jan 02 2014, 11:38 pm

I don't want or expect my kids to parent. The oldest tries sometimes, and I tell her I'm not in the market for an assistant. That being said, I do expect them to help out, mostly cleaning up after themselves or doing easy things for the youngest, e.g., if he wants a glass of water and I'm in the other room and they are right there, I will call to them to please get him a water. But everyone needs time to play and do their own thing after homework is done.

My oldest was five when my youngest was born. I can't imagine having her change a diaper! Go get a diaper from the other room, yes. But changing a diaper or bathing or feeding? No. I'm sorry your friend didn't understand that her daughter was serious. Or maybe she did, and just didn't care.