This is destroying my Shalom Bayit and my children :x

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Forum -> Parenting our children

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amother

Sun, Jan 19 2014, 10:27 am

I have an extremely difficult 7 year old son.
Nothing is ever good enough for him. Whatever we do is always wrong. If we buy him green shoes that he begged for, he wanted the black ones, and if I did a pancake breakfast because he asked for it 5 minutes ago, then he rather wanted bread and jelly as I'm ready to serve. Banging head

He's extremely tense, stubborn, unreasonable, selfish, and Chutzpah.

Besides being at my wits end with him, my main problem is the way DH and I deal with it.
I believe in ignoring his crazy moments and just making believe I didn't hear his unreasonable requests.
DH, OTOH, thinks we need to give him loads of attention and cuddle when he acts this way. We should explain everything in detail as to why he can't have what he wants, or why he's being unreasonable.

These 2 extreme always have us fighting. I can't stand it anymore.
How do you deal with 2 different parenting extremes? Which one of us have to give in a little?
Neither of us is right nor wrong. But how do we stay on the same page?

Success10

Sun, Jan 19 2014, 10:39 am

Can you both go to a parenting class together, read a childrearing book together, or consult a chinuch expert together? It will only work if both of you go in open-minded.

I don't have older kids, so I have no advice specific to your case, other than to try to figure out what it is he really wants. He's not trying to cause you anguish, he's trying to get something from you, much in the way a toddler deliberately drops something from her high chair again and again and again, just to watch you pick it up. I don't know your situation, but try to figure out what it is he really needs that he may be lacking.

ReallyRosie

Sun, Jan 19 2014, 10:40 am

Find a neutral third party to navigate you through this difficult time. A Rav, family therapist, etc. Come up with a plan, and only pursue the plan if it leads to results. Your husband's approach might be correct, but only if it helps your child's behavior in the long run. Yours also might be correct, but you need some time to see it.

I wish you strength! I know how difficult kids can be. You will get through this.

zigi

Sun, Jan 19 2014, 11:10 am

can you give the loads of attention before he acts badly? then ignore requests? read the explosive child by ross greene

piece

Sun, Jan 19 2014, 11:16 am

you are smart in realizing that you both have to be on the same page, children rearing can cause a lot of ahalom bayis issues if you aren't on the same page.
call a hot line, or speak to someone that you both agree on & get advice & your child should see that he will get the same treatment from both of you!!

5*Mom

Sun, Jan 19 2014, 12:01 pm

piece wrote:

I don't necessarily agree here. Unless I am misunderstanding you, it sounds like you are both on the same page in that you both agree on when your ds is being unreasonable and when he can't have what he is asking for. There is room for individual parenting differences in how you respond within this context. It's okay if you respond your way and your dh responds his way. It's okay for kids to learn that parents are different from each other, have individual personalities and parenting styles. If your bottom line is the same, you can each get their in your own way.

amother

Sun, Jan 19 2014, 12:12 pm

did my son move to your house????

can't be there is another child like that out there!

your examples of shoes, food are perfect - describing my child to a T!

This type of child is EXTREME. parenting classes focus on a regular child. I have taken a few courses - used a few ideas for my child but what works for a regular child will not be effective for an impulsive, defiant, angry boy.

I have not figured out which method is most effective. Sometimes it's the love, sometimes it's the ignoring .... the only thing that is clear to me is that if he would be an only child he would be a lot calmer. That is obviously not a solution but it's clear that this child craves to be focused on exclusively.

He takes over the whole house. He is the cause of our children fighting and saying bad words. He is the cause of a lot of stress placed between myself and my DH.

When I am strong I tell myself that Hashem gave me this child and knew I could handle this . Somehow with Hashems help we will be able to raise him well.

amother

Sun, Jan 19 2014, 1:26 pm

There was an article recently about a mother who tried out the Five Love Languages on her difficult child. Worth getting hold of and reading.

Being almost done raising my kids, I can tell you that there were several times when DH and I went to a therapist for help in dealing with a child. If you don't feel that the child needs therapy (or are hoping to get enough skills to deal with him yourself) I highly recommend making an appointment with a really good therapist. You can get some ideas on how to deal with the child, and discuss in what ways each parent can use his or her own strengths effectively.

I agree with above poster, you don't have to deal with him identically as long as you don't contradict each other.

I would also look for opportunities to give attention and love when he is being good or neutral (not making trouble) but that 5 love languages article is worth getting hold of. Maybe someone here has it and can scan it for you!

ABC

Sun, Jan 19 2014, 1:35 pm

It's my understanding that most kids act out because they are looking for more attention. Unless there is something more wrong with the child (which presumably by age 7 you'd be aware of or his teachers would have noticed). I think you and DH are both right but your ideas need to be combined. Your approach to ignore his bad behavior is right - you don't want to give him extra attention for it, as that is showing him that it's an effective way to get your attention. DH is right that DS needs more attention (but his timing may be a little off)

I'm no expert, but from all that I have read and from my experience with my own children, when a kid is constantly acting out, it's a cry for attention. This kid needs to be given extra attention at all other times, lots of positive praise and reinforcement for all the good behavior in between these bursts, and as little attention as possible for the bad behavior. We did this with my DS, going what we felt was over the top with encouragement, going out of our way to 'notice' and acknowledge every single little thing that wasn't a bad behavior, and slowly but surely he changed. You didn't mention siblings, but if they are old enough to be included in this, you could try to spend time at some mealtimes together, each talking about something good that the other siblings did that day. Increasing the focus on positivity and appreciation for good behavior is (usually) contagious.

Like the other posters said, it's very important that you and DH are on the same page and provide a consistent reaction to DS. DS is pushing the boundaries and needs it to be made very clear to him what is acceptable in your home and what is not, regardless of which parent is around. If it helps, you and DH can sit and write together a list of all of DS's positive traits and work hard to praise and encourage him for those things as much as possible. I believe consistency is one of the keys here.

Good luck, you can do it!

ABC

Sun, Jan 19 2014, 1:40 pm

Another thing that usually works wonders for all kids is alone time with mom/dad. You may find that you just don't enjoy his company any more (and even dread him being there). Take him out of school one morning and spend time with him, reconnecting with who he is underneath all this bad behavior and enjoying the wonderful child he no doubt is. You don't need to do anything special together, just run some simple errands, but you should make him your focus of the time, and try to work out what he likes and doesn't like, and tune into that.

Dolly Welsh

Sun, Jan 19 2014, 1:53 pm

All the above is right. Listen to ABC.

Just a remark - when you explain to a child what has been going on with him, you ask him to walk through it again, and conceptualize, and reason, and take responsibility for it all.

At age seven, that may be a lot to ask. Even in adulthood that isn't always useful. It is a lot to put on the shoulders of a seven year old. Your DH is actually the stricter parent here, he is asking much more of the child than you are. Just my non-professional opinion, I have no credentials in this stuff.

And, he is legitimizing the child's way of thinking, by examining it and re-doing it. The kid might more appreciate being walked through a structured way of thinking that is easier and finds more general social acceptance. That is what you, OP, are trying to do.

The kid and his father may simply be minds that have a lot in common. But you think in a different style. And, you aren't doing theory, you are mothering a child. And cooking breakfast. You have the line job of socializing and feeding the kid, so he can go out into the world.

No, you don't have to have identical approaches, not one bit, but as was said above, you can't be in direct disagreement.

In fact, such quarrels actually contribute to the kid's confusion, and make him even more self-contradictory than he was before.

So yes, you and DH need to get into a situation where you can talk this through with a senior person whether psychologically trained family expert, or Rav, with the kid NOT present.

I think DH needs to be a bit more assertive in his notions: that "he is the Ta and he is RIGHT". A kid needs the security of a strong father. Not having that is terrifying.

You might think about how the boy and his father relate when you are NOT there. Ask DH about that.

It is essential that any father support and back up any mother. If he doesn't like something she does with the kids, he has to tell her that when they are elsewhere, or fast asleep, never in front of them, ever. He must enforce their respect for her. And she, the same, with him.

DH is trying to get the kid to remember what he just said, which he doesn't.

That is a good goal. But it should be done in a measured way, a kindly but firm way. DH may be over-doing the details.

Sensory issues here. The kid should be looked at by a professional who deals with that. The intense importance of shoe color, and which food, is sensory. The kid doesn't know how to just let it be, and think about something else while he is eating a very familiar food. He has trouble accepting.

Your notion that he would learn this kind of acceptance if he were given fewer choices may indeed be right. I knew a store lady who said, "if I give them six color choices, they buy. Actually, the wool comes in forty shades. I could give them a lot more color choices. But if I give them too many choices, they leave without buying. They can't decide, and they run, and I don't get the sale".

Giving people too many choices is not always a kindness. People panic and get paralyzed when they have more choices than they can weigh the different merits of.

Decision-making is so hard for all people that CEOs get paid huge salaries just to do that painful act, of making a decision.

I have NEVER asked anybody what they wanted to eat. I make good food and put it in front of them. I have never had a problem, not once. However, I do not mind a bit if they leave some part of it.

Asking a tired, and quite small, child what he wants for breakfast is not the way to go, in my opinion. Smile and feed him, is better, I think.

imaima

Sun, Jan 19 2014, 3:19 pm

I second the idea of alone time and 5 love languages. I have a child who is also like this, but she is 4 and her behavior does not cause me so much anguish. And we do handle it differently.
My dh is very patient. He will make a sandwich for her again and again, until it is the perfect size. If she is fussy about clothing he lets her have anything regardless of season, color and size.
I get fed up much quicker. If she asks for corn flakes and then for bread and then for eggs in the morning, I let her know she will have eggs as soon as mommy is done with her coffee, because dd does have all the other things she asked. I believe that at age 4 a child can wait and at age 7 take himself what he wants (if it is ready). if she is not happy she is free to tantrum - I am calm and I know if she were starving she would have eaten the food she has.
On the other hand I figured out that her live language is acts of service and probably quality time. She is that weird child who loves to have her nails cut, hair done and other acts of grooming.
You should try to figure out what makes him happy and try to do it often.

flowerpower

Sun, Jan 19 2014, 5:06 pm

Having a child with a " strong personality " can be hard on the whole family. It seems like odd a bit. I had a son that was difficult from day one and did the tough love method. He is 8 now and a different child. Most important things are-
- be consistant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Kids play the parents well

- don't be afraid of your child. Let him tantrum. Let him cry. Let him scream. Walk away from the situation. Don't show that you care!!!

- give loads of positive attention! When dad comes home say " did you know that ----- cleared his plate by himself! He also helped the other kids clear their plates. He was such a big help" and give him a hug. That does wonders.

- make him feel special. Get him a cookie that he loves for getting a good mark, getting ready ahead of time for the bus, being kind to his siblings...

- give choices and stick to it! Two choices and give him 2 minutes to make up his mind. Once he makes up his mind there is no changing it. Tell him next time he can chose that. Don't be afraid of a meltdown. You can give him a heads up before he makes his decision.

- build his confidence! Its going to help him a lot. Let him set the table for you, peel and mash the eggs on shabbos, prepare the dips... He will feel great!

Happy Go Lucky

Sun, Jan 19 2014, 9:39 pm

I didn't read all the posts, I also had a child like yours. B"H my child has got much better ONE of the things that helped was reading this book together - a child psychologist suggested - "What to do when you grumble" I found it on amazon. It is a book with activities to overcome negativity. Honestly, I did this in conjunction with ADHD medication. My child who was an angry kid is now so happy and fun!!

http://www.amazon.com/What-Whe.....umble

sneakermom

Sun, Jan 19 2014, 11:27 pm

Find out what fills this child. What kind of nurturing satiates him from the inside. Is it compliments, touch, feeding him good food, noticing his efforts, talents, thoughts etc. Giggling together, building together or going on a walk.

Decide with dh what expectations are valid for this child. Example, putting clothes in hamper, sitting down to dinner.

Figure out how to calmly enforce the basic expectations. I personally love the nurtured heart approach (franticfrummy brought my attention to it)

The child needs to be filled but also contained. Containment comes from parents leading the way and not giving in to every whim of the child. It gives the child a secure base. A ground to stand on.

Filling and containing work hand in hand and they are the two essential tasks of parenting.

MyTimeNow

Sun, Jan 19 2014, 11:32 pm

This book: the Explosive Child, by Ross Greene

If ds's behavior is so extreme that it's affecting the family balance, it's time to go for help. Children act how they feel, and much better to find out what's going on sooner, rather than later. I can guarantee ds is just as worried, confused, and frustrated as you. Guilty, too.

I speak from extensive experience.

5*Mom

Mon, Jan 20 2014, 3:28 am

runningmom wrote:

Idk. DS's behavior may be the catalyst but from the op I get the feeling that it's the other way around: family imbalance is more than likely affecting DS's behavior. It's probably a chicken-and-egg thing, but I think that at this point, the fighting between OP and her DH needs to be addressed first and foremost.

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