bride and groom dancing (NOT the mitzva tantz)

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Bride and groom dancing (NOT the mitzva tantz)

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greenfire

Wed, Apr 18 2007, 11:18 am

I saw a choson dance with his mother ... in a chabad ch chasuna ... I cried ... so it happens and I think it is wonderful ... and important to have such a strong connection ... it just shows that the family has value of each other if you ask me ... I hope my son feels the same way when he gets married ... more people should do this ... fathers and daughter alike

Ima'la

Wed, Apr 18 2007, 11:18 am

I don't think the father dancing with the kallah is so terrible in and of itself (unless specifically frowned upon by your rav), but whenever I see this...then the mother joins...then the chosson and in-laws...some of those people should NOT be dancing together!!! So I don't think it's a good idea b/c I've seen it numerous times and with only one exception, it always led to inappropriate mixed dancing. Also, which side is it on? I think it has to be on the women's side - the kallah shouldn't be dancing in front of men...but then often the women start dancing in a big circle around them - no good either.

Mitzvahmom

Wed, Apr 18 2007, 11:19 am

I went to a very Frum Chabad Wedding, and the bride danced with the father...everyone else watched. It was sweet, but suprising

Crayon210

Wed, Apr 18 2007, 11:26 am

greenfire wrote:

I've seen it too, and I don't think those kallos have more of a connection with their fathers than I do with mine. I think that someone wasn't educated properly about tznius (again, I'm talking about Chabad circles, don't know how other communities pasken).

greenfire

Wed, Apr 18 2007, 11:32 am

I have seen it in chabad circles ... crown heights to be exact ... when it is done with aidelkeit ... it is just fine ... no one said to do the salsa ...

Crayon210

Wed, Apr 18 2007, 11:46 am

greenfire wrote:

I have seen it in chabad circles ... crown heights to be exact ... when it is done with aidelkeit ... it is just fine ... no one said to do the salsa ...

Not according to the letter put out by the CH Beis Din!

How can mixed public dancing be done with aidelkeit?!

gryp

Wed, Apr 18 2007, 12:01 pm

which side do they dance on? Scratching Head

I actually saw a chosson dancing with his mother and the only thing I thought was: UM, that's different...

Crayon210

Wed, Apr 18 2007, 12:04 pm

When it's the kallah with her father, he comes to the women's side and dances in the middle of all those women (a tznius issue before you start with the actual dancing).

I've never seen a chosson dance with his mother. I would assume that he would also have to come to the women's section if he wanted at least that aspect to be "tzanua" (even though there are tznius issue anyway).

TzenaRena

Wed, Apr 18 2007, 12:07 pm

Ima'la wrote:

absolutely true, that others who are perhaps all related to the kallah but are assur to dance with each other are all together in that circle.

Yes, I have seen it, and it makes me cringe. It's more than inappropriate. Rabbanim have spoken out against it, and it's not even based on a minhag, just a fairly recent thing, that in my youth, when masores was not openly challenged like it is nowadays, was never seen.

I have seen a mitzvah tazntz or two by Chassidic (not Lubavitch) weddings, and this doesn't even resemble that.

gryp

Wed, Apr 18 2007, 12:09 pm

oh, the chosson that I saw dancing with his mother was when the wedding was practically over and everyone had gone home except a few. It was on the women's side. I don't think this really takes place smack in the middle of dancing with all these people watching, does it? shock

southernbubby

Wed, Apr 18 2007, 12:14 pm

Although it is not the custom in Chabad, I have seen it numerous times. When it starts, it tends to escalate. For example, if the kallah dances with her father, the chossen may follow suit and dance with his mother. One thing that I have learned the hard way about pictures and dancing is that if both sides don't discuss it in advance, there is bound to be "surprises".

amother

Wed, Apr 18 2007, 12:20 pm

My father danced with me at our wedding. He wanted to (he's not frum) and the rabbi said it was fine. I was SO, SO uncomfortable. We are very yeshivish and there were so many rabbis and frum families there who had never seen this before. Really, it was the worst part of the entire day. Everyone was just watching us and staring and wondering why this was taking place. UGH! I hated every second of the dance. I'm not even sure my dad enjoyed it (the reason why I agreed in the first place was for him) because everyone was staring.

greenfire

Wed, Apr 18 2007, 12:22 pm

and I had a crown heights but yeshivish wedding ... the men sit down the kallah and chosson at the mens side and dance around them ...

also I didn't say it should get out of hand and mixed ... aidelkeit means just the son with mother or the father with daughter ... maybe by the mechitza or in a little corner ... don't know exactly but ... again I have seen it done and I like it ...
there is also the mitzva tanz ... which I saw on more than once ocassion ... and the sincerity of even the chosson and kallah ... holding hands and done with such prayer and thought and sincerity ... there are also those who hold hands away from the chuppa both chassidish and not ... I have seen it all ...

Crayon210

Wed, Apr 18 2007, 12:35 pm

GR wrote:

I've seen it.

Crayon210

Wed, Apr 18 2007, 12:39 pm

greenfire wrote:

also I didn't say it should get out of hand and mixed ... aidelkeit means just the son with mother or the father with daughter ... maybe by the mechitza or in a little corner ... don't know exactly but ... again I have seen it done and I like it ...

I don't know how to break this to you, but when a boy and his mother dance together, that is called MIXED. As in, a male and a female are dancing together. I'm not addressing unrelated parties dancing together. Why is it less mixed if it's a mother and son?

I don't think (and neither did the CH Beis Din, for that matter) that there's such a thing as aidelkeit in mixed dancing, even in the corner, even by the mechitza.

Just because it's heartwarming doesn't mean it's right.

Quote:

there is also the mitzva tanz ... which I saw on more than once ocassion ... and the sincerity of even the chosson and kallah ... holding hands and done with such prayer and thought and sincerity ... there are also those who hold hands away from the chuppa both chassidish and not ... I have seen it all ...

This isn't exactly "seeing it all". It's a minhag that Chabad does NOT have. I think it's insulting to the Chassidim who practice these customs to compare it to a pirtza like men and women (no matter how closely related) dancing together.

Non-chassidim who hold hands while leaving the chuppah are also doing something improper, unless they specifically have a minhag to do so (which I have never heard of; please correct me if I'm wrong).

Ruchel

Wed, Apr 18 2007, 12:53 pm

greenfire wrote:

the men sit down the kallah and chosson at the mens side and dance around them ...

I had that. It was fun because I didn't expect it!

amother

Wed, Apr 18 2007, 1:04 pm

greenfire wrote:

and I had a crown heights but yeshivish wedding ... the men sit down the kallah and chosson at the mens side and dance around them ... ...

What's wrong with that? The kallah is not dancing... Question

southernbubby

Wed, Apr 18 2007, 1:05 pm

I have heard that very frum Litvish rabbis tell couples to hold hands on the way to the yichud room. They also have pictures taken with some form of physical contact such as his hand on her arm or at her waist. I have been in many Litvish homes and have seen the pictures on the walls. [/quote]

greenfire

Wed, Apr 18 2007, 1:09 pm

Crayon210 wrote:

Non-chassidim who hold hands while leaving the chuppah are also doing something improper, unless they specifically have a minhag to do so (which I have never heard of; please correct me if I'm wrong).

YOU ARE WRONG!!!

bluesclues

Wed, Apr 18 2007, 1:10 pm

I agree with you greenfire

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