furious at inlaws continued...

amother

Tue, Jul 08 2014, 10:31 pm

Quote:

My FIL is worth a few million

You do realize that's not as much money as you think it is, right?

Life is expensive, especially with unmarried kids waiting in the wings and retirement around the corner. People are living much longer nowadays and that must be planned for.

I hope you take what people have said to heart.

What you wrote about it being impossible to respect your FIL because he won't give you money for a down payment was shocking. Sad

SRS

Tue, Jul 08 2014, 10:33 pm

amother wrote:

The bottom line is that while my husband and I have certain halachic obligations in terms of honoring him, (that we will honor) respect is a whole different ballgame. Respect is about how I we feel about him and I can't help the way I feel. The bottom line is that I don't respect (in my heart) a man who has plenty of money, is extremely generous to dozens of causes/strangers, but won't help his own son on any level financially.

You absolutely CAN control your emotions. You can control your feelings by recognizing them as feelings and educating yourself about money and its nature. Many people are contributing to your education here and I suggest you listen to them. You are young and focused on me, me, me and want it now, now, now. I understand that. You are probably surrounded by people your age who are getting a lot handed to them. It is time to learn about money and the pitfalls from people who are older and wiser. Read articles and speak to people about money. Chances are you will discover these "greedy" inlaws of yours are actually making wise choices all things considered.

amother

Tue, Jul 08 2014, 10:54 pm

Look, I was emotionally abused by my parents (who, if you want to know, do give me $$), and I still am obligated to give them Kavod. Now my family comes first, and I have to set serious boundaries to make sure neither me nor my husband have a mental breakdown from their issues, but I still have an obligation towards them.

Now tell me, does your husband not have an obligation towards your in-laws?

Bruria

Tue, Jul 08 2014, 11:35 pm

Don't care about what others say, you probably feel hurt by people judging you.

Your feelings are normal. It is really upsetting, I can't imagine a parent not wanting to help their kids.

But, for now, you should think of a way of being able to afford your dream house!

You can do it! It will take more time than if someone handed it to you, but at least you won't owe that to anyone else! Hatzlacha

Imogen

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 4:11 am

Sorry op you feel so wronged, I suspect relations with inlaws are far from easy and if communal tzedaka is given with great fanfare perhaps egos and status may affect your fil judgement. I recognise your anger, but your tone is very bitter, for your own peace of mind and a happy marriage dont " krank" over your fil, you will get your home and you will have earnt it. I write this as both dil and mil, getting upset over inlaws affects no one more than you, your sanity and your marriage. Dont let it!!

FranticFrummie

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 4:22 am

OP, have you ever babysat for a family of 6, and watched them fight like animals over the last two granola bars in the box, because there was literally NOTHING else in the cabinets and the food stamps ran out last week?

I have, and I can tell you that it is heartbreaking. I would much rather see my inlaws give tzedakah so that families like that can afford food, then to have a house that I owned. What about the posters who are putting their kids in public school because there aren't enough scholarships for a Jewish education? Should we just throw those kids to the wolves?

As for the building fund, would you rather those kids learn in a classroom that isn't up to safety code, over crowded, and turning kids away for lack of space? The generations of children who will learn there for many years to come will grow up to be the Jews of tomorrow, and that's a priceless investment.

You should be proud of your inlaws, not resenting them!

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 4:44 am

amother wrote:

Thankfully, I would say we r doing OK financially. That being said we don't have enough money for a down payment.

And because yo udont have enough money for a down payment, that means that if parents have the money they are obligated to give it? NO, Im sorry, but it does not mean that at all.
No parent, even if they have billions of dollars, has to give their children any money.

And many many many many many many people rent their entire lives because they do not have enough of a down payment.

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 4:53 am

amother wrote:

op here, my dh has younger siblings who r not married. To the woman in her late 50's, u missed my point. It sounds like u don't have much extra money to help ur kids. Perhaps if u did, u would help them. My FIL is worth a few million, owns real estate and donates thousands of dollars to various causes. If u had say, 5 million in the bank, are u honestly saying u wouldn't give ur own child a little help with a down payment?

First of all, how do you know how much money your FIL is worth? Thats ridiculous, really.
My in laws also own property. They are not worth millions.

OP, can I ask, how old are you? How long have you been married?

rachel91

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 5:07 am

Op, be happy that you're doing ok financially.

The way you wrote your original post on this thread, I could think you were starving and your 'terrible', rich father in law wasn't giving you any support.

Since that's not the case, try to earn the money for your downpayment yourself.

I can't tell you what I would do, if I was 50 years old and had a few millions in the bank, since I'm neither anywhere near that age nor money.

ora_43

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 5:19 am

amother wrote:

Oh and the big tzedakah? Ever heard the concept of maaser?

This.

OP, it's not reasonable to expect your FIL to have money for you just because he gives maaser to others. That's like saying he must have money to give to you, because he has money to invest in his business, or that he must have money to give to you, because he has money to send to the electric company every month (shouldn't he care about his own flesh and blood more than about random strangers at the electric company?).

For those who can BH afford to give tzedaka, it's a regular expense, not "extra" money. The same money that can go to a yeshiva or a needy person cannot be used for giving gifts to non-needy children, any more than the money for electricity or water can.

amother

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 8:01 am

Op, I hear you. But did it ever occur to you that fil is doing you a favour. Teaching you to be self sufficient?

My fil can easily afford to help us, but he doesn't(unless we really need it). Dh sometimes gets upset because he does give his brother who struggles to make ends meet and put food on the table. He resents it, but at the end of the day his father has taught him to be self sufficient and support his family. We would love to move into a bigger house, go on vacation more often, but we are grateful for the fact that we can live comfortable ON OUR OWN!

I always tell dh that his father is just being mechanech him. His brother is going to be in for a shock when the money runs out.

Happy18

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 8:34 am

Op I think you should just view all the tzedaka your in laws give as their maser money, not as money that could be given to you and your husband. You made me curious so I did the math on how much maser my parents have to give (as of several years ago, no idea what their income is at this point) if they didn't give maser they would for sure be able to give me the money for a downpayment. Am I now supposed to feel that my parents are obligated to give me that money instead of giving tzedaka? No, it's not their money. I think you should try to view it that way, if you were struggling to pay yeshiva tuition, put food on the table or keep the heat on in the winter it would be a very different situation and I wouldn't be giving this advice.

amother

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 8:42 am

OP, I totally understand you. When you see your parents giving other people things so easily and you have needs, it hurts. In fact, it stings. Especially when everyday you drop your kids off at day care to afford the basics. Its hard. It hurts. Its very painful.

imaima

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 8:51 am

amother wrote:

I'm the poster from the "furious at my inlaws" I guess I resent my in-laws attitude towards us. They are always willing to extend themselves and get involved in various financial projects, always willing to contribute financially to all kinds of causes. When a meshulach comes in from israel my FIL will give him post dated checks since he won't be back for another year. The bottom line is that while my husband and I have certain halachic obligations in terms of honoring him, (that we will honor) respect is a whole different ballgame. Respect is about how I we feel about him and I can't help the way I feel. The bottom line is that I don't respect (in my heart) a man who has plenty of money, is extremely generous to dozens of causes/strangers, but won't help his own son on any level financially. I challenge all mothers on this thread to honestly say that if ,say when they r 50 years old and have plenty of money, that they wouldn't help their kids with anything financially. Anybody feel that way? Anybody? That includes housing, tuition, camps clothes ect. In normal parents it is in their nature to want to help their kids. I simply can't respect a man who puts his own family last.

I for one agree with you that your in-laws should be helping you if you are in need and not some remote charity.
And I am planning to help my kids even when they are older, as much as I can. We are also helped even several years into marriage. We also help our parents and give them gifts.
That's just how it is in our family.

amother

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 8:58 am

I totally agree with all the amothers that op's attitude is out of line. However I'm surprised that people seem to think that it's normal for the "younger generation" to have this attitude. I'm in my twenties and married for three and a half years with no support from either side of parents. I would never dream of asking for a down payment, even though I would obviously love a house. And I live in a area where most of my friends ARE being supported so I don't think it's about the environment either. Basically what I'm trying to say is that aside from some exceptions, I think most of our generation is doing just fine Smile

sky

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 9:27 am

When you married your DH did you know his family had money? Were you hoping for an easy life?
Having the dream of that disappear is difficult. Maybe you have to mourn the loss of that dream and move on.
My friend wouldn't marry boys she dated because their families were simpler and she knew she needed a comfortable life. the boy she married has wealthy parents, she liked him, but in many ways she went through with it because she though it would get her a comfortable lavish life. It didn't work like that. She had to mourn the loss of her expectations.

What about your parents. Have you approached them to give you at least a portion of the down payment?

Barbara

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 9:28 am

imaima wrote:

But she's not "in need." She wants to buy a house, but doesn't have enough for a down payment.

Big difference.

If she were coming here and saying that her son's shoes have holes in them and she doesn't have money to buy a new pair, or that they're living on rice and beans, I'm sure that the responses would be very different.

If she were the person in need of assistance for surgery, I'm sure there would be outrage.

But to be "furious" because her in-laws don't want to give her money for a down payment for a house? To state that her in-laws are not worthy of respect because they refuse to support adult children who, according to the OP, are both working and apparently doing OK? To state that parents who are "comfortable" are "obligated" to fund adults who are perfectly capable of supporting themselves?

Ridiculous.

amother

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 9:41 am

op here....My FIL has a reputation around the community as a giver. When the shul needed a few people to step up and give a few thousand a each to build an extension, he was first in line. Whenever there is a parlor meeting he is always generous with a smile. I already mentioned the big journal ads for the yeshiva every year. On purim, when many of the wealthy people in my neighborhood started going away so as not to be "harassed" all day with groups knocking on their doors, my FIL felt he now has an extra achrayis to be home. I guess its his attitude towards us. Iv'e been married a little over 8 years. When my son was born almost 7 years ago, My father called my FIL and asked if he would like to share the expense of the bris. (Not easy for my parents) My FIL said ok. Around 3 days be4 the bris my FIL called my husband to say that the most he's paying is $300. Is that nice? What am I supposed to think of him? My husband was sitting in shul with him a few weeks later as he was bidding close to $2000 for an aliyah. Most parents make excuses to help their children in any way they can. I'm sure 99% of those reading this would put themselves in that category. Unfortunately, there are a few who make excuses and find reasons not to help their own children. Aside from the fact that halachically they don't have to, is that behavior really defensible?

amother

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 9:52 am

I generally agree with everyone saying parents don't have an obligation to give.
But I was a bit shocked when my parents ( who don't give us anything though have a lot bh) gave zedaka to a kalla whose parents couldn't afford giving her an apartment like most ppl do in Israel. Umm right but why does she get an apartment and I don't ? Because her parents call it zedaka ?
Whatever.
I do think op that your feelings come from the society you probably grew up in (if you see all your friends get help and you don't - it's hard, if your parents raised you in a society where it's normal to give its hard not to) and from your general relationship with your in laws.