furious at inlaws continued...

Tekky

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 10:00 am

OP-

While I agree on some level to e/o here, I have to say that I completely understand you. Can't say that you're right, but your feelings are totally justified.

My in-laws barely give us a thing at all, while the rest of their children get plenty. It bothers me a lot many times, but I close my eyes and remember this line that s/o once told me -

"my cheilek is my cheilek, and their cheilek is their cheilek, and no one ever touches anyone else's cheilek"

We each have a portion in this world and we're going to get what we are supposed to get. If your in-laws don't want to step in to be the ones to give, then the money will be sent through a different shaliach. It's so hard to overcome negative feelings, but it's about Bitachon and just being the best person you can be.

Culturedpearls

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 10:13 am

amother wrote:

op here....My FIL has a reputation around the community as a giver. When the shul needed a few people to step up and give a few thousand a each to build an extension, he was first in line. Whenever there is a parlor meeting he is always generous with a smile. I already mentioned the big journal ads for the yeshiva every year. On purim, when many of the wealthy people in my neighborhood started going away so as not to be "harassed" all day with groups knocking on their doors, my FIL felt he now has an extra achrayis to be home. I guess its his attitude towards us. Iv'e been married a little over 8 years. When my son was born almost 7 years ago, My father called my FIL and asked if he would like to share the expense of the bris. (Not easy for my parents) My FIL said ok. Around 3 days be4 the bris my FIL called my husband to say that the most he's paying is $300. Is that nice? What am I supposed to think of him? My husband was sitting in shul with him a few weeks later as he was bidding close to $2000 for an aliyah. Most parents make excuses to help their children in any way they can. I'm sure 99% of those reading this would put themselves in that category. Unfortunately, there are a few who make excuses and find reasons not to help their own children. Aside from the fact that halachically they don't have to, is that behavior really defensible?

I don't understand. Why could you not pay for a bris yourselves?
We did. Our child, our simcha.
Our first grandchild is around the corner.
If it's a boy I'll make a bris in my home & yes pay for it. If our mechutan does so then he can decide how to do it & pay for it.
And $300 will cover it.

amother

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 10:27 am

On the one hand, yes, everyone is correct in saying that your in laws do not owe you anything and you should not expect anything from anyone. and they certainly have no OBLIGATION toward you, and being furious is a little extreme.
BUT, I can completely understand the OP's frustration- when parents or in laws have the means to help and are helping other people with things and are known as the big supporters, etc, it can be very upsetting when they specifically won't help their own children. In this case, it is a little unclear- because if they help with other things and the only thing they wont help with is a down payment and they are giving tzedaka to feed poor people or help schools stay on their feet, then there is a difference there. But for example, I know ppl whose in laws are supporting rabbanim in their own communities and helping them redo their houses and put in fancy kitchens and help them make nice weddings but don't want to help their own kids who are learning with much smaller scale things- because it doesn't make as big of splash publicly, so the children feel like their parents don't care about them as much. These same parents also live a luxurious lifestyle, so the kids feel, my parents are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on vacations and clothing and lifestyle, but I have to cheshbon out my grocery bill and cannot buy my kids orange juice, which if my parents helped out, it would not even make a dent in their saks fifth ave clothing bill of the month. SO, while yes, they do not owe you anything, it is hard not to feel bad about it a little. When there are parents/in laws who are not so well off, then there is no bad feelings because you don't feel like they don't care about you when they aren't able to give you money.

amother

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 10:29 am

Culturedpearls wrote:

just curious- why won't your kids be making the bris for their son themselves? Their child, their simcha?

amother

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 10:35 am

amother wrote:

just curious- why won't your kids be making the bris for their son themselves? Their child, their simcha?

I am genuinely curious about what is done with brissim- I know my in laws made their daughter's first son's bris, but they were also really upset because they thought this would mean that they got to make the decisions about the kibbudim like sandek, etc and were upset when my brother in law gave it to his father, and named after his grandfather (!). and they still talk about the nerve that their son in law had to do this, when they paid for the lavish bris! what is generally done?
I am expecting to make our own bris, IY"H, but my in laws like to invite a lot of ppl and we would make a very small bris because we are on a tight budget. How do ppl work that out? Has anyone ever told their parents/in laws that they can't invite guests to grandson's bris?

amother

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 10:35 am

This is what my in-laws did for me when I had a baby. First we asked FIL to pay for the mohel, $600 for a Shabbos bris, and he said no. (We were strapped and needed to dip into savings for this unexpected charge). Then my MIL took my husband shopping at Babies 'r Us and filled up his cart with $250 of elegant baby items (washcloths, duckie robes). When they got to the checkout, she went away to look at other things! So he paid. (My friend went through a similar thing with her father in a grocery store). We learned the hard way not to expect handouts!

amother

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 10:37 am

amother wrote:

We made our son's bris which was on a shabbos so therefore we had a kiddush and then a seudah. My inlaws wanted us to invite every first cousin my dh has which k'eh is a lot of people. We told them they can come to the kiddush but we can't afford for them to be there for the meal. They were upset at first but got over it soon after.

SRS

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 10:48 am

amother wrote:

OP, I totally understand you. When you see your parents giving other people things so easily and you have needs, it hurts. In fact, it stings. Especially when everyday you drop your kids off at day care to afford the basics. Its hard. It hurts. Its very painful.

I don't understand this at all. With few exceptions, well off parents got to their station in life through hard work. They put in their due, sacrificed their immediate gratification, sacrificed their free time. Now you are doing the same and through hard work, thrift, and delaying gratification you too will hopefully be reasonably well off someday. It should not sting that parents have build a foundation and that their kids, in turn, are building their foundation. Perhaps someday, the inheritance and maaser given will help another generation build their foundation. I'm with these parents who don't just hand it over to generation #2 so they can sit pretty. Unless parents shirked their duty to teach their son (and I'd say daughters) an honest trade, they have done their duty and can distribute their estate at the time they see proper and fit. And clearly, witnessing how high the emotions are running, the time to distribute is not now. Not at all.

Chayalle

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 10:59 am

amother wrote:

Were you not pg for 9 months? Did you not know that if it would be a boy you would have to pay the mohel?

That being said, your DH should not have assumed she would be paying. And he could tell his mother, gently, that he cannot afford to pay for all those cutesy items, and you already have towels in the house, etc....

Chayalle

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 11:02 am

amother wrote:

In terms of your inlaws, their SIL is right - his baby, he and his wife get to choose the name, etc.....If they chose to help with the costs, that's lovely, but it does not entitle them. Just like their children were not entitled to receive the lavish bris - it's a generous gift.

Gifts are a one way street. They do not obligate the recipient in anything specific.

B"EH when you make a bris, you need to work out an invitee list that fits with your budget. You will have to tell your inlaws that you cannot afford to invite all those people. If you wish, you can honor them by inviting a few. That's between you and your DH.

21young

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 11:02 am

amother wrote:

just curious- why won't your kids be making the bris for their son themselves? Their child, their simcha?

Obviously this is all cultural but for many young couples who are having their first child the husband is still learning, they just got married recently, and they are still trying to find their footing. In my community for the first, or the first few children, the parents pay.

amother

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 11:08 am

I don't think the OP feels they are obligated to help. But it is hurtful and inconsiderate. Let's say you were standing by and saw someone fall, you wouldn't try to help them up?
In this case, there may see things are hard but look the other way. That's not nice. Not that it's their obligation. She's not upset at not getting the money as much as being uncaring and inconsiderate which it sounds like they are.

sky

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 11:11 am

do they help you out in any other way? do you go to them for yom tov? Does your husband feel loved or emotional cared for by them other then the down payment. Did they help you out when you were first married, pay for the wedding?

Regarding all the tzedakah.
If your in laws make 1 million per year in profit (lets say after taxes) - that is 100,000 to give as ma'aser (is my math wrong?)
Giving away 100,000 is an obligation -- and someone who does that would appear a big supporter.
In one month there is over 8,000 to give as ma'aser - so he may have wanted to give the shul a donation that month from the ma'aser and do it as an aliyah.
Giving children who live comfortably money is not tzedakah nor ma'aser.

Last edited by sky on Wed, Jul 09 2014, 11:13 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 11:11 am

I think op is coming off as a bit entitled and immature by using the words obligation and furious.

But I am pretty sure we are part of the same generation and a lot of us we're raised by wealthy parents who did a lot for us growing up and it could feel a bit cold to be completely cut off post marriage. Both my parents and in laws helped us out with buying a house had various other expenses. And many families in my area count on the grandparents to help with tuition.

MaBelleVie

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 11:17 am

amother wrote:

She used the word OBLIGATED, in caps, about ten times in all of her ranting. People who are saving for a down payment are not falling. They are better off than many other people, who don't even have anything left at the end of the month to save.

amother

Wed, Jul 09 2014, 11:17 am

Chayalle wrote:

I actually have a very hard time shopping with my mother in law for this very reason- she will pick out a lot of expensive things and heavily imply that she is paying for it, but not make it 100% clear what she is paying for- and sometimes she will pay and sometimes not. We are on a very strict budget, so it is very stressful for me to shop with her. She does not understand what a budget is, B"H she grew up very privileged and then got married and my father in law B"H does extremely well and she never had to work or know what its like to have to think about whether you can afford something or not. I am told by my husband that I am not allowed to tell her that we cannot afford things because she is already very upset that he is learning in kollel, and she makes him feel guilty by saying that she will cry if she hears something that makes her think we are poor (in her words). I try to avoid shopping with her at all costs because it is way too stressful for me. At least in babies r us, things are returnable! I have had to turn around and return whole shopping trips in the past because of this. It took me a while to understand that we will never be able to understand each other when it comes to money and I try to avoid those kinds of situations whenever possible.