Who does one turn to?

animeme

Thu, Dec 03 2015, 11:28 am

You may need to take tzedakah against dh's wishes. He needs to feel comfy in his work, and hates getting tzedakah. One has to give. You can give him the choice, and if he doesn't make one, tell him you will be calling Tomchei Shabbos, which is something you do have control over. You can figure out how to make it look like a grocery delivery, or whatever other arrangement you can make with them, in order to help dh save face. Maybe make a plan with him to do this for three months and then reevaluate, so he doesn't feel you will be on forever. That's a good plan anyway.

shoshanim999

Thu, Dec 03 2015, 11:43 am

amother wrote:

I feel along with you, I am in a very similar situation. Except for that I have a very special family that help me financially. And I accept their tzedukahs. Yes! It's painful! It hurts to take. But that is one of my challenges in life. The money is Hashem's. He chooses who should get it directly from him and who should get it in the form of tzedukah.
We cannot force our husbands to take a job they don't want to. We can do our best to try to convince them to take anything as long as they earn something. And divorcing such a husband is not the solution! It only creates many more problems. I wish I would have an answer for you! But I already made peace with the situation. It is what it is!

Is it really "painful" to take from family? This is one of life's challenges? You've made peace with your situation? You can't be serious.

SRS

Thu, Dec 03 2015, 1:43 pm

animeme wrote:

I think that taking tzedakah and pretending it is something else is just further enabling.
I'd go to bare minimal eating (not unhealthy eatings). Legume soups, peanut butter sandwitches, oatmeal, and the least expenses fruits and veggies. Shabbos can be the same. Try it for a few months with some other major changes and see if he feels the a pinch. I can't speak for your home, but in my home, if we went to minimal food, things would go out of control.

Bitachon101

Thu, Dec 03 2015, 1:45 pm

I'm not as much hoping that money will land in my lap as that a job will land in his lap.... And one that he is comfortable doing.

I don't want to take money. U don't want to take tzedaka or loans or be a "case". It's downright humiliating. I just want dh to find a job he feels good Abt so he can function and we can all function.

Honestly when I started this thread my mind was not on who to turn to for money but who to turn to that will say I will make it my business to get him hired in a place that's good for him.
I realize that many of you feel like he's a loser and just go take any freakin job to pay bills but what u need to understand is that he will not function in a setting that he is not comfortable with. The whole family will suffer worse. He can't control it. It's the way he is (as are many ppl when they don't feel good Abt selves). He needs to work in a place he feels productive and not embarrassed or anxious.

He is a good worker, he looks like a typical litvish businessman and in a business setting is his comfort zone. He can manage and assist operarions, he can help customers, he can look things up online and pretty decent on comp internet, he is a good writer and a fast typer, he can account manage he is creative and has a feel of things that look good etc.
He often needs direction and isn't the main decision maker but good at working on a team or together with ppl. Though he is more of a shy kind if guy he tries to cover that up. He is more of an analytical thinker type of personality.

He is not a physical labor kind of guy though he has gotten hands dirty when needed.
He needs to feel productive though or it just won't work and he'll get depressed.

What else can I say?

Located in Lakewood so really for the short term at least he needs to be local (currently he has been dealing with carpool and grocery shopping and many other needed errands as well )

MagentaYenta

Thu, Dec 03 2015, 1:52 pm

Sometimes people who aren't into physical labor do get their hands dirty when push comes to shove. At this point he has minimal job skills and should be happy with a job that puts food on the table for his family. All labor is honorable, and yea, it's depressing if one has to take a job below their levels of knowledge, skill and experience but sometimes that's what it takes. He may just have to accept the reality that he may have to start at the bottom and work his way up to wearing a suit and tie to work every day.

amother

Aquamarine

Thu, Dec 03 2015, 2:02 pm

Hugs. You are in a tough spot, one I know all too well. I've learned many things over the years, and please forgive me if it's nots not what you're ready to hear.

Bitachon, you are enabling him. You need to realize that he doesn't need to get a good job to make him feel good about himself.

He needs to feel good about himself in order to be willing to take any job.

He needs therapy. You need therapy to stop buying his attitude and learn how to take steps to actually help him isntead of infantilizing and paralyzing him.

Even if he finds the perfect job he will eventually lose it if he doesn't take responsibility for his emotional issues. And you will only continue to get the same old results from him by believing his words and not pushing him for help.

I know you may not have time or money but there are free clinics that you probably qualify for.

amother

Mistyrose

Thu, Dec 03 2015, 2:05 pm

Op I understand you very much. Although my situation is a little different. DH makes some money (money on the hour ) if he doesn't work then there is no income. that is in his line of work he had very little work Elul & tishre. So I was literally starving. I lost my job more then a year ago. And up until now I do not have a job. I do a few hours a week teaching. But and here is the but: We have closed up our business and we have huge debts to pay... So when the wage do comes in we pay our debts. And we don't have anything to live on. The clothes from the children are care packages. And I go with my summer coat in the winter, last year I said I will buy this year a new coat. You see where we are now. Recently I went to learn long distant for a BA ( I already have a degree in accounting). But it will take a good few years till I will see money from there.

Hugs and good luck

ora_43

Thu, Dec 03 2015, 2:12 pm

Bitachon has your husband ever had a job that he really enjoyed and was good at? To be honest, from what you're saying it sounds like any job he's currently qualified for would have at least one aspect he wouldn't like. And I agree with previous posters that it sounds joblessness is the symptom, not the root of the problem.

But if he does have a history of successful employment (prior to the failed sales job), that would put a different spin on things IMO.

amother

Slategray

Thu, Dec 03 2015, 3:59 pm

f according to your description that he might do well as a salesman in B & H or other electronics store that pays sales reps by the hour. I know some people who have not been successful in other places do well there.
Brainstorm together about what his options are. Many people get turned off by the job description. I tell my husband if it sounds 5% ok then go for an interview. In reality the job is not as bland as it seems in the ad. You need to do a ton of cold calling and once you have a lead make him take over as there are many jobs that are not advertised. Also a seemingly insignificant lead or contact can be the key to his employment. With hishtadlus Hashem will help iy'h. I've seen that with my dh.
BTW there are organizations such as EPI that can help.

shoshanim999

Thu, Dec 03 2015, 4:33 pm

ora_43 wrote:

I dunno, I think it sounds very painful. I agree with you that it's not the OP's situation, but it still must be very upsetting to have a husband who won't work.

How is it "very painful"? if you can pay the bills and keep your dignity I don't consider it painful. My DH has a cousin who learns and is supported by wealthy grandparents. The grandparents give them 12 postdated checks at a time. Is that really painful? Unless there is the unusual circumstance when We can't compare getting "help" from family and getting actual tzedaka from the klal.

amother

Dodgerblue

Thu, Dec 03 2015, 6:42 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

Taking money from parents and grandparents is one thing. And that I say thank you and sometimes can call myself to ask for help even tho it is hard for me because u don't want my kids to feel the poverty. However getting donations from siblings and other extended family members is a complete different thing. It is humiliating! Did I accept it totally? No! But I won't cry for days after. And try my best to accept it and being thankful for growing up in such a wonderful family.

amother

Dodgerblue

Thu, Dec 03 2015, 7:04 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

1. How are you in a "similar" situation??? You are fortunate that your family helps you and gives you money to pay your bills. The OP has no idea how she will pay her bills.

I wrote I am in a similar situation. Before my family started helping I tried doing it on my own and that is why I know how it feels not knowing how will I feed my family tomorrow. So I meant to say I can relate and feel along her pain and worries.

The reason I posted to begin with is for all the posters that say she is enabling him to know that that is not the case all the time. My dh worked very hard and still does. Did u hear of the saying "don't work hard, work smart"? We went for therapy. We tried everything under the sky. You cannot make an adult man do whatever u want! You can threaten with leaving him but since I did not think that it will help and am not ready to break up the family cause of money I did not use that. The next is keeping back s@x. Is that something you wld advise a DW to do in such a situation? I believe that not.

My point is op is trying to be nice by understanding her dh. Fighting and yelling at each other's all day cause she wants him to start driving a school bus won't do any good and he won't give in. So now what? What will she accomplish? A toxic environment for the kids and everyone around. All she can do is keep on reminding him that the bills are piling and go bring money to pay them and ask Hashem that he understands and does the right thing of taking the first job he hears abt.

amother

Lawngreen

Thu, Dec 03 2015, 7:10 pm

I will preface this by saying I have enormous sympathy for the OP. Few things are as horrendous as the strain of facing this kind of economic hardship in which one doesn't have enough money for food.

But this is a situation which to a great extent is within the control of the OP - or at least her husband. I don't understand how someone can feel they can hold out for a job that is up to their standards when they don't have a pot to pish in.

Work is what they pay you to do - that's the bottom line and over the course of my professional life, I have had positions in which I had to put up with c*rap in one way or another.

I'm a professional at this point but even in a professional job, I've been put in humiliating, debasing positions in which I could only fantasize about having the means to tell them to stick it. But I needed the paycheck. I've had bosses who have gone out of their way to torture me and I have had to stick it out because I needed the paycheck.

I've also had great jobs but even a great job has one doing a lot of stuff one wouldn't do unless one was being paid. LOL

So I am completely unsympathetic to someone who refuses to consider a job because it is somehow not up to their standards. And while I am sympathetic to the OP, I also think she is buying into her husband's elevated sense of entitlement and treating him like a special delicate flower that doesn't have to put up with the same c*rap that we lesser souls put up with to earn a paycheck and support our families.

I am a strong feminist and have no problems with a wife being the breadwinner anymore than I have with the wife staying home. I grew up in a family in which my mother made more than my father. But the proviso is that the family can exist on one income. This family can't exist on one income.

The reality is that if one is not working when one should be working, one starts to spiral downward. Taking a job - any job - and doing it well makes one feel good about oneself.

How is it more dignified to not work and have your family go without necessities? I just don't even understand that as an option. I know many people who work or worked at jobs that were theoretically below their education/experience because they had to and I certainly admire them more than someone who the OP's husband.

ROFL

Thu, Dec 03 2015, 7:16 pm

Shoshanim what happens when the wealthy grandparent s are not around to write a check. Even if they leave a yerusha what does that teach the grandchildren who will support them?

shoshanim999 wrote:

amother

Taupe

Thu, Dec 03 2015, 7:37 pm

Everyone please stop attacking OP. No, this situation is NOT her fault.

When you are the sole adult in the relationship, the only one willing to step up to the plate to work, take care of the household, make sure bills are paid and your kids bellies are fed, it somehow also becomes your responsibility to take care of the big overgrown baby that you married and get him into a job, or into counseling/therapy or whatever it takes. Everyone gives YOU advice about how to handle it, because after all as the mature grown up partner it's your responsibility to do what's right for your family.

Let's let go of the question of why you married him in the first place. Maybe he's charming. Maybe there was family pressure. Maybe he really was an excellent sincere bochur who fell apart when he had to face the challenges of married life. Or maybe you just didn't choose well. But whatever the case, it is not your FAULT that you married him or that he's like this. You are doing the best you can.

And all those posters telling the husband to shape up or ship out... well too bad for you, you're not speaking to the husband. YOu're speaking to his wife. She can only choose what SHE will do, not what HE will do. She does not have control over his behavior.