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Forum
-> Household Management
-> Finances
Have your parents ever turned down your request for money?
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| Yes - once or twice |
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5% |
[ 8 ] |
| Yes - a few times |
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8% |
[ 13 ] |
| Yes - all the time |
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4% |
[ 7 ] |
| No |
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14% |
[ 23 ] |
| No - I never asked |
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56% |
[ 90 ] |
| No - They give me without asking |
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11% |
[ 18 ] |
| Other |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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| Total Votes : 159 |
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smilingmom
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 Thu, Dec 24 2015, 5:36 am
| amother wrote: | | And what point of view is that? |
That point of view is that 'we sacrifice for our children' and we hope our children will do the same for their kids.
Not to be confused with the point of view of many of today's American generation (both secular and Jewish) of "entitlement". That our parents and society owes what we 'need' (like $200 sneakers and money for a down payment on our first house).
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amother
Indigo
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Thu, Dec 24 2015, 5:51 am
| amother wrote: | To those who feel that adult children should be self sufficient and responsible and should not ask their parents of help. After all, you never depended on or asked for help.
I have two questions for you.
1- where is Hashem in your equation? Do you truly feel you got where you are by your own effort only?
2- do you convey to your children the ideaology, that Once they are adults, 'don't come knocking on my door'? |
Why do you think aiming for financial independence without parental support excludes the awareness of how Hashem can help? What, are your parents the sole representation of God on earth? Why can't Hashem help through earning your own money rather than through your parents earnings? Or grandparents? Or taxpayers donating money for your WIC or section 8?
And I think it is clear that asking or expecting support from your parents is totally different from offering it to your own children.
Shallow thinking.
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smilingmom
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Thu, Dec 24 2015, 5:59 am
I have made a compilation of what I think are the most offensive posts on this thread.
Can anyone enlighten me as to what hashkafa principals back your stance?
By the way, we B"H never had to ask my parents for money. We lived in a tiny basement apartment with an 'under the counter fridge' until right before my fifth kid was born and managed very nicely. However, if I needed anything at all, I knew that I can ask parents without hesitation and not be embarrassed, even as a adult.
| Quote: | | As a child, absolutely. As a grown responsible adult, why in earth would I request money from them? |
| Quote: | | wouldnt dream of asking. we work hard & try to live within our means. |
| Quote: | Why is it more likely that your parents would ha thousands of dollars lying around then you, I'm assuming they have been paying tuition all these years, making bar mitzvahs, saving for retirement, Making weddings). Where does all this spare cash come from?
In 20 years are you going to have thousands of dollars lying around to give you your own children for simchas, repairs, bills, etc? |
| Quote: | In my world parents are no more likely to have spare cash floating around to pay for our disasters/ financial sinkholes. That is what rainy day savings, loans and credit cards are for. At what point in your life do you decide to take responsibility for your own finances? Or is that why you all fight over the yerusha?
This is the problem with marrying children to children, they never learn to grow up and become independent, even when they are parents of older children themselves. |
| Quote: | | The title of this thread sounds like it belongs on a teenage forum. |
| Quote: | And yet many of us would not ask even under the circumstances you mentioned.
And most people will do whatever they could to prevent that from ever happening. I know too many people who know money is tight but spend it anyways. Even things that are not really necessary but "we NEED it". For some reason, when people emphasize "need" then they really don't need it. And then their lights are off. Your kid doesn't need a second sweater. Or Shabbos coat. Or even all the extras people buy for Shabbos. Do you really need gefilte fish and liver with eggs with onions and cholent and deli and kugels/sides every week by the day meal? (way too much food personally and even if traditional, it is not required or necessary). It is a "nice thing to have if you have the money" or as others may say, "a want". |
| Quote: | People need to budget better and save for rainy day. If you have nothing saved- you should ideally have 6 months saved away- don't spend the "wants".
I have BH a little saved up but even though I really would like to buy a few things that would be helpful, as I have been managing until now it can wait a few months.
Savings are important. I don't want to ever get my lights turned off on me. (But I am also careful, as part of budgeting, to not have extra lights on or let the water run while brushing teeth). |
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amother
Coral
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Thu, Dec 24 2015, 6:05 am
| smilingmom wrote: | That point of view is that 'we sacrifice for our children' and we hope our children will do the same for their kids.
Not to be confused with the point of view of many of today's American generation (both secular and Jewish) of "entitlement". That our parents and society owes what we 'need' (like $200 sneakers and money for a down payment on our first house). |
I hope I will be in a poisition to help my children as much as possible when they are adults. But I think there are different ways of a child going about it.
I think there is a difference between a parent offering their child help rather then child asking their parents for help.
Scenario 1:
Me: "My washing machine just broke and and I have to buy a new one. I wasn't expecting this expense"
Mother: "I want to send you $500 toward the new machine. I know its important for you to have one.
Scenario 2:
Me: "Mom, My washing machine just died, would you be able to give me $500 towards the purchase of a new machine."
Mom: "OK"
In both scenarios the parents are giving. But in the first its the mother's choice and she isn't being put into any position. In the second it isn't the mother's choice and she has very little options. I think there is a huge difference.
I'm the one who wrote that I can't imagine people asking for money for simchos, etc. I think its lovely if parents want to help and try to contribute. I think it is wrong to just ask.
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smilingmom
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Thu, Dec 24 2015, 6:12 am
| amother wrote: | I hope I will be in a poisition to help my children as much as possible when they are adults. But I think there are different ways of a child going about it.
I think there is a difference between a parent offering their child help rather then child asking their parents for help.
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How your child asks is totally dependent on how you bring them up.
As for me, I am glad that my child can ask outright, so I don't have to guess if they are just being conversational or really need money.
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amother
Jetblack
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Thu, Dec 24 2015, 6:22 am
| smilingmom wrote: | I have made a compilation of what I think are the most offensive posts on this thread.
Can anyone enlighten me as to what hashkafa principals back your stance?
By the way, we B"H never had to ask my parents for money. We lived in a tiny basement apartment with an 'under the counter fridge' until right before my fifth kid was born and managed very nicely. However, if I needed anything at all, I knew that I can ask parents without hesitation and not be embarrassed, even as a adult.
| Quote: | | As a child, absolutely. As a grown responsible adult, why in earth would I request money from them? |
| Quote: | | wouldnt dream of asking. we work hard & try to live within our means. |
| Quote: | Why is it more likely that your parents would ha thousands of dollars lying around then you, I'm assuming they have been paying tuition all these years, making bar mitzvahs, saving for retirement, Making weddings). Where does all this spare cash come from?
In 20 years are you going to have thousands of dollars lying around to give you your own children for simchas, repairs, bills, etc? |
| Quote: | In my world parents are no more likely to have spare cash floating around to pay for our disasters/ financial sinkholes. That is what rainy day savings, loans and credit cards are for. At what point in your life do you decide to take responsibility for your own finances? Or is that why you all fight over the yerusha?
This is the problem with marrying children to children, they never learn to grow up and become independent, even when they are parents of older children themselves. |
| Quote: | | The title of this thread sounds like it belongs on a teenage forum. |
| Quote: | And yet many of us would not ask even under the circumstances you mentioned.
And most people will do whatever they could to prevent that from ever happening. I know too many people who know money is tight but spend it anyways. Even things that are not really necessary but "we NEED it". For some reason, when people emphasize "need" then they really don't need it. And then their lights are off. Your kid doesn't need a second sweater. Or Shabbos coat. Or even all the extras people buy for Shabbos. Do you really need gefilte fish and liver with eggs with onions and cholent and deli and kugels/sides every week by the day meal? (way too much food personally and even if traditional, it is not required or necessary). It is a "nice thing to have if you have the money" or as others may say, "a want". |
| Quote: | People need to budget better and save for rainy day. If you have nothing saved- you should ideally have 6 months saved away- don't spend the "wants".
I have BH a little saved up but even though I really would like to buy a few things that would be helpful, as I have been managing until now it can wait a few months.
Savings are important. I don't want to ever get my lights turned off on me. (But I am also careful, as part of budgeting, to not have extra lights on or let the water run while brushing teeth). | |
Can you explain why these posts are offensive? I don't understand what this has to do with hashkafa? Asking your parents for money and davening to Hashem for parnassah or two totally unrelated things as far as I know. I'm curious where the frum hashkafa of not teaching children to aim to be self sufficient comes from? Are there sources for that hashkafa?
ETA: obviously if someone's in a really desperate situation, then turning for help is expected, and there's nothing wrong with that. Unfortunately it happens. But I just don't understand the attitude of running to mom and dad every time an extra expense comes up, even if you may be a little tight or stretched thin. I think it's healthy to try to be independent as much as possible even if it may be a bit uncomfortable.
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smilingmom
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Thu, Dec 24 2015, 8:16 am
| amother wrote: | Can you explain why these posts are offensive? I don't understand what this has to do with hashkafa? Asking your parents for money and davening to Hashem for parnassah or two totally unrelated things as far as I know. I'm curious where the frum hashkafa of not teaching children to aim to be self sufficient comes from? Are there sources for that hashkafa?
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Again, where in Judaism do we get the concept of not helping immediate family members?
If you won't ask your parents for help if you need it, your children will learn from you that you think it is wrong for parents to help kids.
Parents are obligated to make sure that their kids learn a trade and become financially independent. Parents are not obligated to help their kids, its just a thing we do for people we love.
| Quote: | | As a child, absolutely. As a grown responsible adult, why in earth would I request money from them? | Because I know my parents love me and would want to help me if I needed it.
| Quote: | | wouldnt dream of asking. we work hard & try to live within our means. | So all the people who are suffering financially either do not work hard or do not live within their means?
| Quote: | Why is it more likely that your parents would ha thousands of dollars lying around then you, I'm assuming they have been paying tuition all these years, making bar mitzvahs, saving for retirement, Making weddings). Where does all this spare cash come from? For your kids sake, you do without.
In 20 years are you going to have thousands of dollars lying around to give you your own children for simchas, repairs, bills, etc? | Yes, I truly hope I will be able to help my kids.
| Quote: | In my world parents are no more likely to have spare cash floating around to pay for our disasters/ financial sinkholes. That is what rainy day savings, loans and credit cards are for. At what point in your life do you decide to take responsibility for your own finances? Or is that why you all fight over the yerusha?
This is the problem with marrying children to children, they never learn to grow up and become independent, even when they are parents of older children themselves. | The problem is attitude, yours.
| Quote: | | The title of this thread sounds like it belongs on a teenage forum. | I wish your children never have to ask for your help, financial or otherwise. On second thought, they probably never would.
| Quote: | And yet many of us would not ask even under the circumstances you mentioned.
And most people will do whatever they could to prevent that from ever happening. I know too many people who know money is tight but spend it anyways. Even things that are not really necessary but "we NEED it". For some reason, when people emphasize "need" then they really don't need it. And then their lights are off. Your kid doesn't need a second sweater. Or Shabbos coat. Or even all the extras people buy for Shabbos. Do you really need gefilte fish and liver with eggs with onions and cholent and deli and kugels/sides every week by the day meal? (way too much food personally and even if traditional, it is not required or necessary). It is a "nice thing to have if you have the money" or as others may say, "a want". |
If you truly feel people could prevent poverty, why do you tithe (give maaser)? or perhaps you don't.
| Quote: | People need to budget better and save for rainy day. If you have nothing saved- you should ideally have 6 months saved away- don't spend the "wants".
I have BH a little saved up but even though I really would like to buy a few things that would be helpful, as I have been managing until now it can wait a few months.
Savings are important. I don't want to ever get my lights turned off on me. (But I am also careful, as part of budgeting, to not have extra lights on or let the water run while brushing teeth). | 'Gold star' for you, I guess you never lived paycheck to paycheck.
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amother
Jetblack
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Thu, Dec 24 2015, 8:22 am
| smilingmom wrote: | | 'Gold star' for you, I guess you never lived paycheck to paycheck. |
I'm sorry but I think you're projecting a lot of your own views onto these posts. No one's saying there's anything wrong with helping your children if you want to and are able to. To me the way you responded to the posts is a lot more offensive than the posts themselves.
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amother
Jetblack
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Thu, Dec 24 2015, 8:24 am
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Also your opinions on raising children are just that - an opinion. Don't say that this is Torah. I don't think you'll find any source in the Torah for parents being required to financially help their adult children. You're definitely entitled to your opinion and your hashkafa but this is not based on Torah- just on what feels right to you.
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HonesttoGod
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Thu, Dec 24 2015, 8:29 am
I have it both ways.
One set of parents who don't really have, give a little when they can but are always there for a sympathetic ear if they can't help and we are struggling.
The other set that has. Sometimes gives, sometimes doesn't. ALWAYS complains how little they have because "the family shabbs cost them sooo much". Sometimes their money isn't worth it but it is always nice to have.
I never ask. If I did it would be to borrow,for a loan. I don't feel entitled to anyones money except my own that I work for.
I work hard now and I save up, not to give my kids in the future but to be comfortable and not have to worry and stress about money in the future when I have simchas to make etc. That said I do daven that I will be able to be there and help my kids when they are married without any strings attached.
I love how amother coral wrote it:
| coral wrote: | I hope I will be in a poisition to help my children as much as possible when they are adults. But I think there are different ways of a child going about it.
I think there is a difference between a parent offering their child help rather then child asking their parents for help.
Scenario 1:
Me: "My washing machine just broke and and I have to buy a new one. I wasn't expecting this expense"
Mother: "I want to send you $500 toward the new machine. I know its important for you to have one.
Scenario 2:
Me: "Mom, My washing machine just died, would you be able to give me $500 towards the purchase of a new machine."
Mom: "OK"
In both scenarios the parents are giving. But in the first its the mother's choice and she isn't being put into any position. In the second it isn't the mother's choice and she has very little options. I think there is a huge difference. |
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smilingmom
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Thu, Dec 24 2015, 9:05 am
| amother wrote: | | Also your opinions on raising children are just that - an opinion. Don't say that this is Torah. I don't think you'll find any source in the Torah for parents being required to financially help their adult children. You're definitely entitled to your opinion and your hashkafa but this is not based on Torah- just on what feels right to you. |
You right, no biblical obligation at all to support kids after age 6 or so, and definitely not adult children, just Mesorah, of generations of parents sacrificing for their kids.
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amother
Jetblack
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Thu, Dec 24 2015, 9:13 am
| smilingmom wrote: | | You right, no biblical obligation at all to support kids after age 6 or so, and definitely not adult children, just Mesorah, of generations of parents sacrificing for their kids. |
Does sacrifice = financial support?
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smilingmom
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Thu, Dec 24 2015, 9:14 am
| amother wrote: | | I'm sorry but I think you're projecting a lot of your own views onto these posts. No one's saying there's anything wrong with helping your children if you want to and are able to. To me the way you responded to the posts is a lot more offensive than the posts themselves. |
Yes, my responses may have been offensive. I guess reading about all these self-righteous imamothers, who would never ask their parents for help, even if they needed it, which they obviously never did, made me respond offensively.
I am more worried that they are conveying this attitude to their children. How awful for children to know that their parents think parenting stops at age 18 or 21 or that confiding financial difficulties in your parents will result in a "you should have planned better speech"
Yes, a lot of these posts that spout "I would never ask" are saying "there's something wrong with helping your children, even if you want to and are able to." Why would I help my children, unless I could and they needed it.
Last edited by smilingmom on Thu, Dec 24 2015, 9:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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smilingmom
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Thu, Dec 24 2015, 9:17 am
| amother wrote: | | Does sacrifice = financial support? |
financial, emotional, physical support, and praying all contribute to the sacrifice we make for our kids.
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MagentaYenta
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Thu, Dec 24 2015, 9:19 am
| smilingmom wrote: | Yes, my responses may have been offensive. I guess reading about all these self-righteous imamothers, who would never ask their parents for help, even if they needed it, which they obviously never did, made me respond offensively.
I am more worried that they are conveying this attitude to their children. How awful for children to know that their parents think parenting stops at age 18 or 21 or that confiding financial difficulties in your parents will result in a "you should have planned better speech" |
You'd be surprised how many women wouldn't think of borrowing or asking their parents for money. For some it is out of respect for their parents financial situations. For others it may be ownership of their own lives and circumstances. Independence manifests in may ways.
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amother
Jetblack
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Thu, Dec 24 2015, 9:19 am
| smilingmom wrote: | Yes, my responses may have been offensive. I guess reading about all these self-righteous imamothers, who would never ask their parents for help, even if they needed it, which they obviously never did, made me respond offensively.
I am more worried that they are conveying this attitude to their children. How awful for children to know that their parents think parenting stops at age 18 or 21 or that confiding financial difficulties in your parents will result in a "you should have planned better speech" |
Except I think parenting is about so much more than money!! Of course "parenting" doesn't stop at adulthood. My parents have always been there for me and my children emotionally and in many other ways. I can talk to them about finances or any other problem, and they will always offer advice and guidance. I am very close with them. I have never asked them for money (and no, I am not wealthy by any means). Does that make them bad parents? I don't think so.
Anyway, I think we can just respectfully agree to disagree. Despite our differences you sound like a great mom.
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happybeingamom
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Thu, Dec 24 2015, 9:28 am
| amother wrote: | | Also your opinions on raising children are just that - an opinion. Don't say that this is Torah. I don't think you'll find any source in the Torah for parents being required to financially help their adult children. You're definitely entitled to your opinion and your hashkafa but this is not based on Torah- just on what feels right to you. |
If your children are poor, yes you are responsible to help them. Ha Karov Karov Kodem.
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amother
Chartreuse
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Thu, Dec 24 2015, 9:44 am
Smiling mom, you quoted my posts a few times so I am here to try to elaborate/explain... I would do under my SN but I said some personal things about my family, relatives and finances so I want to protect privacy.
Yes, I lived on a salary that could be "paycheck to paycheck" but it didn't end up being that way because I spent less than I made. I saved the rest. I lived in tiny places that smelled. I ate like a pauper at times- very minimal. Didn't buy anything not needed. No smart phone with crazy data costs. I didn't even text after it was the norm to do so! It was hard but I wanted $10 in the bank!
Yes, we have gotten help from family,like I posted about DH accident. But after it was all calmed down and he was out of the hospital, one parent spoke to me very gently saying "this is what we save for".
I replied that we were working on it but it didn't get to that crazy sum yet- I hated asking but was so grateful they were available and willing. "Well, we were glad to help, that is what we are here for. But one day we might not be able to help you and we want you to be secure without us".
That is what parenting is- making sure your kids can survive and thrive without you. I hope to be financially able to help my grown kids but that they not need it.
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amother
Indigo
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Thu, Dec 24 2015, 9:51 am
| smilingmom wrote: | | Yes, my responses may have been offensive. I guess reading about all these self-righteous imamothers, who would never ask their parents for help, even if they needed it, which they obviously never did, made me respond offensively. |
You are totally projecting, those who wouldn't ask are as heterogeneous a group as those who would ask, and are no more self righteous than those who say it is an obligation on the parents to buy a 100k+ $ apartment down payment in Israel.
Other people have reasons not to ask, financial, relationship, hashkafic, medical, many reasons that they would not ask their parents for money or would decline an offer. You are the only person who has decided this is "obnoxious".
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smilingmom
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Thu, Dec 24 2015, 10:28 am
I guess my perspective is that of a mother of adult children and most of you here are the 'adult' children.
I would be hurt if my children did not feel that they can ask me for help when they need it. I might not always be able to help, but I would like to be given the opportunity.
I brought up kids and know that they would not ask for money for luxuries or down payments for a house.
Nor would my kids ask money for clothes when they can get hand me downs or money for books when they can go to the library.
But if they need financial help, I hope they come to me before going anyplace else.
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