Have your parents ever turned down your request for money?

amother

Chartreuse

Thu, Dec 24 2015, 4:07 pm

happybeingamom wrote:

If your children are poor, yes you are responsible to help them. Ha Karov Karov Kodem.

Except if by helping them you are perpetuating the problem. Then you will be doing more damage than the little good paying that month's rent will do. Sometimes they have to know that they need to do their histadlus and not "oh, I can spend what I want because Mommy will pick up the tab" or "I don't have to work because Tatte will help us out if we are in a pinch". Or I don't have to save and plan in advance for the bris (you have 9 months), bar mitzvah (you have 13 years) etc. Or I don't have to live within my means, plan a simcha that I can afford, and not do what everyone else does just because everyone else does it!

Like with addicts, sometimes you have to hit rock bottom to become self aware that you are not managing.

Side note: this is not in the case of a major medical crises or "abnormal situation" in which there were no predictors, like natural disaster. I am referring to cases where routinely people cannot pay their bills and need to ask parents for help. (However one should save and plan for those "crazy events" because we all know that one will happen). Eventually the parent's money will run out, they might pass away CV or have other obligations (they also were hit in the same earthquake/tornado) and then how will the children survive? They need to live on their own two feet.

I believe in preparation being super important. Like having emergency flashlights, food, and water available "just in case", we should have some cash on hand. I do not understand how some people, especially noticeable in the frum community, will refuse to have a few extra canned goods, bottled water and batteries! Whether you live in San Francisco and can expect a "big one" at any time, or live in the Midwest and have tornados often, or live on the east coast with hurricanes .... natural disasters hit everywhere. Not to mention blizzards, blackouts...

amother

Indigo

Thu, Dec 24 2015, 4:13 pm

smilingmom wrote:

I guess my perspective is that of a mother of adult children and most of you here are the 'adult' children.

I would be hurt if my children did not feel that they can ask me for help when they need it. I might not always be able to help, but I would like to be given the opportunity.

I brought up kids and know that they would not ask for money for luxuries or down payments for a house.
Nor would my kids ask money for clothes when they can get hand me downs or money for books when they can go to the library.

But if they need financial help, I hope they come to me before going anyplace else.

So now you're backtracking. All along people have maintained there is a difference between what you would ask for as an adult child v what you would offer as their parent.

amother

Indigo

Thu, Dec 24 2015, 5:32 pm

smilingmom wrote:

No backtracking at all.
1- I would want my kids to ask if they needed anything.
2- all these adult children, who think it's wrong to ask, will not immediately change their opinion once their kids become adults. They have an attitude that children should be self sufficient and not ask for help that is what I find reprehensible.

This is the absolute opposite of what I and other posters explicitly wrote, but you have chosen to misinterpret and find offense in the misinterpretation. Try listening to others instead of prejudging them in a negative light and you might find yourself less offended.

amother

Mint

Thu, Dec 24 2015, 5:55 pm

smilingmom wrote:

I would agree with the bolded, except that I think most of them are exaggerating their independence to keep up with the Kalmans. There is a pervasive attitude on this website that asking for and accepting help somehow makes you weaker, and being independent and struggling and managing all on your own makes you stronger.

Except when you start pressing for details, it turns out that even the women who don't accept a dime support from their parents had their college tuition totally paid for, or a down payment for a house, or tuition for their kids, etc. etc. etc.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. Even smart, strong people should know when to ask for and accept help graciously.

It's like another "mommy wars" thing. Proving how self-sufficient you are. Except it's actually so, so common for parents across the US, Jewish or not, to help pay for tuition and down payments if they can, to keep their adult kids on their insurance, and so on. People help each other. You accept help when you need it, and you hope to someday be in a position where you can freely and willingly help others.

There is a certain wisdom that comes with middle age that is just not present in most young adults. Life experience teaches you some things that are different than the perfect ideal.

Salut

amother

Jetblack

Thu, Dec 24 2015, 6:13 pm

amother wrote:

Except when you start pressing for details, it turns out that even the women who don't accept a dime support from their parents had their college tuition totally paid for, or a down payment for a house, or tuition for their kids, etc. etc. etc.

Salut

Not true. Not for myself, and I'm sure many many others on this site. But continue making assumptions, it's all good as long as it supports your point Rolling Eyes

why is it so hard for people to believe that some of us REALLY don't get any financial support? Is it really such a foreign concept in the frum world??

amother

Chartreuse

Thu, Dec 24 2015, 6:37 pm

And there is a difference IMO between tuition and asking for rent. One helps you eventually be self sufficient, the other is a bandaid.

Yes, I have had help. Medical emergency remember? But do I ask for it or expect it? I do my utmost to be independent. If money is tight, I shop at dollar stores, use coupons, and don't buy unless NEEDED. I would be uncomfortable asking for help to pay for fancier foods, a simcha, or because I need a new dish washer. (Wait, I don't even own one!).
I guess the bottom line is there are different ideas being posted. I want independence and financial security and am aiming towards the day when I DONT NEED to ask. If I was in trouble I would, say if CV another medical issue occurred. But we are saving to help us not need the help.

amother

Salmon

Thu, Dec 24 2015, 11:05 pm

Chartreuse, and all other independent amothers on this thread, you are saying you only asked for help in an extreme emergency that does not often occur. Because you are super scrupulous and careful with how you spend money and you never want to ask. Because it is an admirable situation to be completely financially independent.
But how would your point of view change if you were super scrupulous with money and desperately wanted to be independent but instead of needing help for extreme emergnecy that rarely occurs, you are still not making it, and need help constantly in order to avoid eviction? Or what if you and your husband work so, so hard so as to increase your income and minimize your spending and even attempt to accrue savings- but then G-d, without asking you or anyone in your family, just goes ahead and dumps you with a chronic illness which prevents you from working? So that, suddenly, despite all your hard work, your income is halved and then additionally, even though you aren't working, your expenses go up.

My point is only this: you can work so hard. and you do your hishtadlus. and you try. and you want to be independent. but you don't know what will be. you don't know what will happen. you can't predict that your efforts will be fruitful. you can't know that your finances will be commensurate to your efforts. so just be careful as you put yourselves on a higher pedestal since you are so perfectly financially independent.
As an aside, (and also as her daughter), I agree with smilingmom in that I found many posts on this thread offensive.

amother

Violet

Fri, Dec 25 2015, 1:16 am

amother wrote:

Honey, this is called LIFE. Things happen. If you are old enough to get married, you should be old enough to take care of yourself. Dealing with these situations yourself will help you become a stronger person.

For the majority of our married life dh and I were poor. We were paycheck to paycheck and some necessities went on the credit card because our kid really needed new shoes and we just didn't have money. I had unexpected expensive medical expenses that had to be payed out-of-pocket.

Right now we are B"H doing better financially but we still have around $8k on credit cards to pay off. We are paying it off as fast as we can but it is a slow process. We have about $1,000 in our savings. And we're only a few years away from our oldest's Bar Mitzvah.

But there is no way we would ask for or expect our parents to give us money. We would never go run to them to dig us out. I know they love us, and I know that they would help us in any and every way they could if we asked, but honestly, we're adults and it's not mommy and daddy's job to take care of us financially any more.

I remember once reading that an actress (I can't remember who) was giving an interview and spoke about how her teenage kids were talking about being rich and she interrupted them and said, "Uh-uh! Your dad and I are rich-you're not." That impressed me.

Eta: anonymous because I'm pretty sure people irl know who I am (my screen name) and I don't want them to know my personal financial info.

amother

Violet

Fri, Dec 25 2015, 2:37 am

amother wrote:

Violet, are you saying that if I can't handle life (aka I'm being evicted or the like), I am not responsible enough to be married with kids? Should my eviction papers be served with divorce papers? Should unemployment insurance benefits require consent to put my kids in foster care?

What?? No!

Being evicted doesn't mean that you're not handling life. That doesn't even make sense.

I'm saying that when we are adults we should strive to deal with what Hashem brings us in a responsible way. I'm reading so many of these posts where it sounds like the first second there's a little hiccup (such as a broken dishwasher for instance) people are bringing it up to their parents in the hopes that their parents will offer to pay for repairs, or that they are asking their parents for money to pay for their children's simchas. I personally think that we should tackle these things ourselves the best we can. We should do every single thing in our power to fix our own circumstances before even thinking of approaching our parents for financial aid. And if that means that we are doing dishes-or laundry-by hand for a few months until we can afford machine repairs, or Shlomo's bar mitzvah is a little less elaborate than his cousin's, then so be it.

In the frum world there's a certain financial standard that people are made to feel they must live up to, and that is a pretty expensive one. Before Faigy and Moshe (made up couple) go running to parents for help because they can't make their bills any more, they should try if possible getting a smaller house or apartment, sell the new cars and buy used, make less expensive simchas, etc.. In other words, do everything humanly possible they can themselves before turning to their parents.

FYI, before we moved to a new community, my dh lost his job and was out of work for several months and we had our small, cheap house foreclosed on. We were getting much of our food from food banks. I know that life is rough, I know we can't always help what comes our way, life just happens sometimes. But even then, I really think that we should do everything we can to help ourselves and our circumstances.

smilingmom

Fri, Dec 25 2015, 6:14 am

amother wrote:

Not true. Not for myself, and I'm sure many many others on this site. But continue making assumptions, it's all good as long as it supports your point Rolling Eyes

why is it so hard for people to believe that some of us REALLY don't get any financial support? Is it really such a foreign concept in the frum world??

I agree many people don't get help from their family.
I didn't. Thank God, I never needed to.
However, there is nothing wrong for asking for help, if you need it and your parents can help.

What I don't understand is the attitude that it is wrong to ask for help when you need it.