I think my teen DS is playing with his phone on Shabbos

amother

Oak

Sun, Jan 10 2016, 5:57 pm

and it's killing me.

I feel like I've failed in my education.

I also know that it's his personal struggle, he's happy with many other areas of Yiddishkeit so I think it's more of a personal challenge for him in this specific area.

Ultimately, he's doing it in private so there's not much I can say or do besides accept that he has to overcome this himself and maybe once in a while talk to him about overcoming challenges and temptations.

amother

Lilac

Sun, Jan 10 2016, 7:14 pm

Can you create a parking spot (like a bin or basket) for all the cellphones in the house? An electronics muktza box? Then you have to find a place to store it or lock it so that he can't sneak it.

amother

Azure

Sun, Jan 10 2016, 7:23 pm

I did hear that there are groups of teens being part of group text and they are frum looking in every other area but text on shabbos. there is one in brooklyn and one in either monsey or lakewood. so shocking I hear rabbi z. wallerstein saying it. I couoldnt believe it then. but he said its a huge challenge for them. us older generation dont understand it. but these kids are frum in other ways.
go figure. I really dont understand. like if other stuff they are ok why is this such a big challenge? I would love to hear from someone that knows the challenge and explain it. thanks. just trying to understand

gittelchana

Sun, Jan 10 2016, 7:26 pm

amother wrote:

Can you create a parking spot (like a bin or basket) for all the cellphones in the house? An electronics muktza box? Then you have to find a place to store it or lock it so that he can't sneak it.

That would just address the symptom which would give him the need to sneak around the new rule or yearn to leave the house and its imposing rules.

OP, the fact that your son is using his phone on Shabbos probably has little to nothing to do with the upbringing you gave him. It's a big Nisayon for our phone addicted generation to not touch the phone on Shabbos.

He needs to know that you know about it. That you don't like it. That you love him anyway. That you're very upset by what he's doing. That you still love him even though you're so upset. That you understand the challenge. That you're there to help him when he's ready to begin to overcome his challenge. That you won't be pushy or overbearing about it. That you expect him to not do this where anyone can see.

Hug

Boca00

Sun, Jan 10 2016, 8:50 pm

Quote amother:
go figure. I really dont understand. like if other stuff they are ok why is this such a big challenge? I would love to hear from someone that knows the challenge and explain it. thanks. just trying to understand[/quote]

I heard from someone who works with teens at risk, that this is because today's teens learn to communicate through text as opposed to speech. This is like telling a text addicted kid that they can't talk all Shabbos (especially if their friends are part of of this text group so he has FOMO if he's not on his phone). Not to justify this behavior AT ALL but just to work better with him with the understanding of how difficult this can be for him.
Maybe you can talk with a Rabbi that has experience with at risk teens for guidelines? I'm sure these Rabbis have a ton of experience with this, unfortunately.
Many many hugs.

amother

Plum

Sun, Jan 10 2016, 10:54 pm

gittelchana wrote:

He needs to know that you know about it.

We were told this is bad advice. Even when you absolutely positively know a child is transgressing, you have to allow him to save face and outwardly pretend you respect him. We were told to indirectly have outside mentoring or some yungerman "befriend" him and help him get out of his nisoyon. Otherwise, he might feel all is lost, you know he is a mechalel shabbos and it's not worth it to struggle anymore only give up.

My son had different struggles and has no clue that we knew all along. We had arranged the mentors. We paid them. But my son had no clue. We never changed our approach towards him. BH he is in a good place now, and his ego was never affected.

penguin

Sun, Jan 10 2016, 11:00 pm

I think I would work on breaking the addiction. Suggest phone free hours (such as dinner, family outings) where kids and parents turn off their phones. Learn to live in the here and now instead of the virtual world. The parents have to model this.

says she as she decides to leave the computer.

gittelchana

Sun, Jan 10 2016, 11:40 pm

amother wrote:

Why would it be bad advice?

It's bad advice for you to shove it in his face with anger. It's good advice to use a more indirect way of communicating that you know. If that fails, tell him in the most gentle way possible. I'd actually suggest your husband be the one to tell him, man to man. A boy is a lot more likely to feel understood by his father.

Merrymom

Mon, Jan 11 2016, 12:15 am

Just take the phone away until after Shabbos. You don't have to single him out, just a new family thing. If he has a yetzer harah for this then help him with it until he's stronger. It doesn't mean you failed as a parent, there's just an awful disease spreading around unfortunately.

November

Mon, Jan 11 2016, 1:03 am

I think it has to do with filling time. I can sense myself wanting to reach for my phone sometimes on Shabbos because I'm just lying in bed sort of bored. The phone/internet fills that space so you don't ever have to be bored or doing nothing. Not saying that's good- just what may be presenting the desire /taivah.

amother

Plum

Mon, Jan 11 2016, 1:07 am

Merrymom wrote:

And you think he can't get himself a new phone without his parents' knowledge? Then he would be in a worse spot, because his parents would be oblivious of his chillul shabbos whereas now at least they know and can try to help him overcome this struggle.

amother

Plum

Mon, Jan 11 2016, 1:17 am

gittelchana wrote:

Why would it be bad advice?.

You see, I'm not a professional and won't pretend to be one.

I can only tell you what we were told by smarter, more experienced, and knowledgeable people than us. And they seem to have been right.

Perhaps what you are suggesting is good too, but I can't vouch for that, as we were guided in the contrary.

Tablepoetry

Mon, Jan 11 2016, 2:27 am

amother wrote:

I agree. If a kid is possibly transgressing in private, I would NOT call him out on it.
Rather it is best through positive reinforcement to encourage him to come to a better place.

No one ever improved from shaming (and it will be shaming, no matter how you frame it). Rather, people improve in order to live up to others' ideal of them.

imasinger

Mon, Jan 11 2016, 3:41 am

OP, if you think this is a matter of temptation but not hashkafa, I like Lilac's suggestion. No shaming, no blaming, just a practical way to handle a bad habit.

You can relieve shame by owning the concern yourself - it's in a good cause. Why not say it's because you found yourself reaching for the cellphone without thinking one Shabbos, and stopped yourself just in time?

If there is a hashkafa issue, it's a different question.