Music in restaurant during 9 days

amother

Plum

Sun, Aug 07 2016, 3:51 pm

We went out for lunch at a kosher dairy restaurant today. They were loudly playing pop music (hip hop, Adele, etc).

I asked the waitress to please turn it down. Was I in the wrong?

Notsobusy

Sun, Aug 07 2016, 5:29 pm

I'm not sure if you're right or not. On the one hand, I was taught that as long as you don't turn on the music, or go there specifically to hear the music, it's not your problem if there's music playing. On the other hand, the thought of a kosher restaurant playing music in the three weeks bothers me a lot. It would also bother me that a kosher restaurant is playing pop music at any time.

cbsp

Sun, Aug 07 2016, 8:41 pm

amother wrote:

We went out for lunch at a kosher dairy restaurant today. They were loudly playing pop music (hip hop, Adele, etc).

I asked the waitress to please turn it down. Was I in the wrong?

I say kol hakavod to you... you were in a kosher establishment that's ostensibly catering (no pun intended) to a crowd for whom listening to music is problematic during this time. It could be the staff was unaware or it could be they were waiting for a customer to "notice" - which you did.

DrMom

Sun, Aug 07 2016, 9:47 pm

glutenless wrote:

Not sure were the OP is located, but there are many kosher restaurants in Israel that don't specifically cater to frum Jews. I can see how a stam branch of Aroma or Cafe Greg would have background music (even *gasp* pop music Smile

) playing during the Nine Days, during the Omer, etc.

I think I would ask to turn down the music only if it were something truly offensive (I would do this all year 'round), or if a significant percentage of the diners present seemed like they would be on board with my request.

Otherwise, I would either just ignore the music or eat elsewhere.

amother

Plum

Mon, Aug 08 2016, 5:13 am

We were eating out because we were out of town and needed food. This was not for pleasure but for sustenance.

Also, this was a kosher restaurant in NJ. No non-Jewish patrons. There were quite a few other dati people eating there.

zaq

Mon, Aug 08 2016, 11:57 am

Marion wrote:

Some would ask why you're eating out at all during the 9 days. (It's not forbidden but it's something that is definitely for pleasure.)

And who are these "some" you refer to? Name names.

Eating cake and ice cream are also for pleasure. Do you remonstrate with people for eating cake during the nine days? Do you criticize folks who eat ice cream? How about using air-conditioning when they are healthy, do no hard physical labor and have no life-dependent reason for using it? For that matter, how about talking to friends on the phone just for pleasure and not for urgent needs? How about smelling the roses?

Jewish mourning customs are hard enough as it is. Please don't go around making up new chumros. Yes, you did say eating out is not forbidden but you implied that this is a mere technicality. An oversight, as it were. If you don't eat out during this period, hooray for you, but don't imply that others are in the wrong if they do.

agreer

Mon, Aug 08 2016, 12:09 pm

zaq wrote:

LOVE THIS!

Yep, we have a lot of customs; no need to add more!

HonesttoGod

Mon, Aug 08 2016, 12:25 pm

amother wrote:

Not ALL Jewish people don't listen to music.
Not ALL Jewish people keep the strictest rules of not listening to any music during the 9 days.

amother

Plum

Mon, Aug 08 2016, 12:27 pm

HonesttoGod wrote:

Not ALL Jewish people don't listen to music.
Not ALL Jewish people keep the strictest rules of not listening to any music during the 9 days.

Obviously. And I never implied or said that they did (or should).
My question was whether it was appropriate for me to ask them to turn it down (note I didn't say off).

I also think it is strange for a kosher restaurant to play loud music of any sort during the 9 days.

DrMom

Mon, Aug 08 2016, 12:30 pm

You can always ask the restaurant management to turn down music if it is bothering you, even if it's not the Nine Days. They might not do it if they think other diners enjoy it, but it's perfectly okay to ask.

amother

Babypink

Mon, Aug 08 2016, 1:01 pm

I worked in a restaurant in Chicago (KENS!!!) for about 5 years. They played music - the psak that was given was to continue to play whatever music they normally play during the 9 days and sfira. Why not call the manager and ask them it bothered you so much?

Notsobusy

Mon, Aug 08 2016, 1:35 pm

DrMom wrote:

) playing during the Nine Days, during the Omer, etc.

You have a point, it depends what community the restaurant is from or caters to.

amother

Plum

Mon, Aug 08 2016, 1:44 pm

amother wrote:

Thanks for the inside insight. Very interesting.
Not sure why you think it bothered me so much based on my posts, but ok.

etky

Mon, Aug 08 2016, 2:50 pm

Marion wrote:

Some would ask why you're eating out at all during the 9 days. (It's not forbidden but it's something that is definitely for pleasure.)

To elaborate on this - there are halachic opinions, in Israel at least, that consider it inappropriate to eat out during the nine days for the sole purpose of entertainment.
This, for example, is the official stance of Beit Hillel - an organization that includes many well-known (and generally liberal) DL rabbis.
For others, it's a nuanced issue that allows for a certain degree of personal discretion. Rav Yuval Cherlow, a prominent DL rabbi and a member of Tzohar addresses this issue and determines that if there are no special, extenuating circumstances (he brings shalom bayit issues as an example) then eating out during the nine days as entertainment, if not technically forbidden, should be avoided.
I can't tell you anything about the author, but the Chabad on-line Hebrew site even states that going out to eat as entertainment during the nine days is outright prohibited.

mha3484

Mon, Aug 08 2016, 3:00 pm

We don't eat out this week and I don't cook elaborate milchig meals at home either. I think the general idea of the 9 days is to minimize simcha. How does it suit the time period to go to a high end restaurant and eat a $40 piece of sea bass? I see this all over social media especially in one Facebook group I am in, and feel like I'm not normal. Restuarants open just in time for the 9 days. How is that not entertainment?

Mon, Aug 08 2016, 3:07 pm

mha3484 wrote:

ITA.

I would try to avoid a festive environment during the nine days.

imasinger

Mon, Aug 08 2016, 3:27 pm

I don't know what's wrong with you all.

You're not supposed to eat meat. You're not supposed to wear new or newly washed clothes.

Therefore, it makes perfect sense to fast for all 9 days, whether you eat out or in, and not wear anything at all.

Now THAT's how to show that you are sad about the churban.

(Forgive me for joking a little; I do take it seriously, but I also hope that a little lightening up can add to ahavas yisrael.)

cbsp

Mon, Aug 08 2016, 3:59 pm

mha3484 wrote:

I think this article expresses your POV:

I don't think it's just about adding more chumros. After all, post-churban, it's a big leniency that we may listen to music at all the rest of the year...