Sleeping in the Succah.

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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Succos

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Who sleeps in the Succah??

Just D.H.

40%

[ 8 ]

D.H. and you

10%

[ 2 ]

D.H. and boys

35%

[ 7 ]

The whole familly

15%

[ 3 ]

Total Votes : 20

mimivan

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 3:45 pm

The Rebbe hardly slept more than that anyway (I heard he slept only 45 minutes at a time)

shalhevet

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 3:53 pm

mimivan wrote:

I have to say that I've been in several Chabad Houses over the course of the yearly celebrations, and nothing but NOTHING seems to cause more machlochis between Chabad and others (minhag-wise) than the issue of sleeping in the Succa... I've seen grown men yelling at each other at the top of their lungs over this (I think a bottle flew once...)

I wonder why that it is? Is it because non-Chabadniks feel they are moser nefesh to sleep in the Succa and we feel it is mesirus nefesh not to?

No, it's because people say they have a minhag not to keep a mitzva midoraisa.
If people started saying they had a minhag not to fast on YK you'd probably start throwing a few bottles yourself.

mimivan

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 3:57 pm

Are you really saying it is the same severity as not fasting on Y.K which is written in the Torah ("You shall afflict yourselves)???

gryp

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 3:59 pm

Since no one has bothered to finish the sentence, I'll do it and hope I don't have to do it again.

You are supposed to sleep in the sukkah.... EXCEPT if it causes you tza'ar, you don't have to.

Mrs. XYZ

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 3:59 pm

Why are you all getting so defensive? And whats wrong if the 'reason' for not sleeping in the sukka is because it was cold in Russia? There are many minhagim that are kept today, especially on Pesach, that are not really shayach anymore. And the reasons are because years ago things were different.
Why do we do the preparations on Friday for a motzei shabbos tevila? Because years ago there was no light, so the preparations had to be done by day light, and since you cant do it on shabbos, they did it on Friday. Today it wouldn't be a problem, yet we still hold like that.

shalhevet

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 4:04 pm

mimivan wrote:

Are you really saying it is the same severity as not fasting on Y.K which is written in the Torah ("You shall afflict yourselves)???

Mimivan, I like you. I'm sure you're not asking these questions so that I'll get into trouble, right?

The answer is yes. It is a mitzvat asei midoraisa.

בסוכות תשבו שבעה ימים.

You can check Sefer Hachinuch, the SA and the Rambam that that includes sleeping.

mimivan

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 4:05 pm

But that isn't the reason. If that were the reason, people would say so (like they say the reasons they don't eat certain foods on Pesach, because in Russia...etc..)

chavamom

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 4:08 pm

GR wrote:

Since no one has bothered to finish the sentence, I'll do it and hope I don't have to do it again.

You are supposed to sleep in the sukkah.... EXCEPT if it causes you tza'ar, you don't have to.

I honestly confused as to your point here. Are you saying that it causes everyone tza'ar to sleep in a sukkah? And hence the minhag? B/c my dh and kids would certainly disagree. Campout anyone?

amother

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 4:13 pm

chavamom wrote:

GR wrote:

Since no one has bothered to finish the sentence, I'll do it and hope I don't have to do it again.

You are supposed to sleep in the sukkah.... EXCEPT if it causes you tza'ar, you don't have to.

I honestly confused as to your point here. Are you saying that it causes everyone tza'ar to sleep in a sukkah? And hence the minhag? B/c my dh and kids would certainly disagree. Campout anyone?

Maybe it caused the Rebbe tzaar, and therefore all the chassidim cant sleep either Scratching Head

shalhevet

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 4:15 pm

Yay, chavamom. I would definitely count it as one of my sons' favourite mitzvos of all year. Very Happy

(The girls are jealous, but there's no sleeping room for them as well).

jewgal84

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 4:32 pm

No One...

sarahd

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 4:39 pm

Oh, I forgot to add that I was hoping we could skip the whole argument about being mevatel mitzvos deoraisa, since we had a thorough discussion/fight on this theme last year.

amother

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 4:41 pm

jewgal84 wrote:

No One...

and if your babies fall asleep in there, are you going to davka wake them up?? Tongue Out

j/k

amother

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 4:42 pm

found a link to where this was all already discussed

anyone with a genuine interest in knowing why chabad don't sleep in a succah will find the answer.

anyone with a genuine interest in bashing Chabad, will also find some lines to use there as well, but it won't make you right. Rolling Eyes

http://imamother.com/forum/vie.....7199a

Mama Bear

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 6:47 pm

a lot of minhagim of 'der alter heim' stayed til today's day even though the reason doesnt exist anymore - the shtreimel - it's not freezing cold here like it was in Russia - the boots for Skver, ditto - a lot of the pesach chumros - we just continue keeping them. I wasnt making fun of chabad, just stating my guess why they dont sleep in the succah. I guess I was wrong.

gryp

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 7:41 pm

Quote:

Why are you all getting so defensive? And whats wrong if the 'reason' for not sleeping in the sukka is because it was cold in Russia?

As I pointed out before, Chabad doesn't not do Mitzvos because they are hard.

Quote:

Oh, I forgot to add that I was hoping we could skip the whole argument about being mevatel mitzvos deoraisa, since we had a thorough discussion/fight on this theme last year.

I was going to write that too, but figured we did it last year, why would anyone want to go through it all over again.

For those who don't understand about the Tza'ar, here's my own quote at the end of the other thread that amother brought the link to (Thanks Amother!)

Quote:

the Halacha does not obligate you to sleep in the sukkah if it causes you Tza'ar (distress). and it causes a Chassid Tza'ar to sleep in such a holy place that shines forth with the highest level of G-dly light. (and if it doesnt cause the Chassid Tza'ar for that reason, then it causes him Tza'ar that he doesnt feel the G-dly light.)

I recommend (re)reading the first page of that thread anyway, it has great info in it.

shalhevet

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 7:56 pm

GR wrote:

For those who don't understand about the Tza'ar, here's my own quote at the end of the other thread that amother brought the link to (Thanks Amother!)

Quote:

I recommend (re)reading the first page of that thread anyway, it has great info in it.

I know that you are all going to think that I just want to knock lub, but I at least want to understand your argument.
Are you really saying that a person has tza'ar if he sees the light, and he has tza'ar if he doesn't see the light? shock

Is there anyone who can explain this logic to me?

And if it is right, then why would the Torah ever command someone to sleep in the sukka? Because he would always either see the light (and have tza'ar) or not see the light (and have tza'ar). I.e. who would ever have such a mitzva?

And then why would the Shulchan Aruch and the Rambam and the Chinuch say people had a chiyuv to sleep in the sukka? Because either they saw the light (and had tza'ar) or didn't see the light (and have tza'ar)?

jewgal84

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 7:57 pm

amother wrote:

jewgal84 wrote:

No One...

and if your babies fall asleep in there, are you going to davka wake them up?? Tongue Out

j/k

Hopefully won't have that prob at night.. bed time is way b4 the men come home from Shul...

stem

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 8:03 pm

What about Yaakov Avinu who had no problem sleeping in the most holiest place on earth? Confused

gryp

Mon, Sep 24 2007, 8:16 pm

Quote:

I know that you are all going to think that I just want to knock lub, but I at least want to understand your argument.

A fair question is a fair question.

Quote:

Are you really saying that a person has tza'ar if he sees the light, and he has tza'ar if he doesn't see the light?
Is there anyone who can explain this logic to me?

Feels, feels the light. You can't see the G-dly light, at least I can't.
The Sukkah is a very very holy structure. For this reason we also do not decorate it. It is hard to explain the level of holiness a Sukkah has but very very holy will have to do.
A Chassid who is on the level to be able to feel the holiness shining in surely would not dare sleep in the sukkah. A Chassid who can't feel the lofty holiness is bothered by not being able to feel it and surely won't sleep either.
The early Rebbeim (Alter Rebbe, Mitteler Rebbe) established this as a Minhag Chabad.

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