Are you happy wearing a sheitel?

amother

Vermilion

Tue, Nov 07 2017, 7:48 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

No I don't want to stop wearing a shaitel. I love my sheitels. In fact I hope to buy another one tomorrow.

Your response is exactly why the concept of sheitels are do confusing. Of course you love your sheitals. I love mine as well. They are stunning. People frequently comment on how beautiful they are. I love the attention. Isn't this all opposite of why we cover our hair? The whole idea is so backwards to me. Imagine if we covered our bodies (in the name of tznius) with provokotive clothing. Men would gawk and stare. Everyone would say that is not the proper way to cover up. Yet that seems to be exactly what we do with wigs. We cover up in a way that grabs even more attention.

mommy3b2c

Tue, Nov 07 2017, 8:04 am

amother wrote:

We cover our hair because we are supposed to. Not to make ourselves less attractive. If your shaitel is extremely s-xy, that’s a probalem with tznius, not with covering the hair.

watergirl

Tue, Nov 07 2017, 8:12 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

No I don't want to stop wearing a shaitel. I love my sheitels. In fact I hope to buy another one tomorrow.

I hope you found one that you like and wear it in good health!
Signed, a woman who stopped wearing sheitels years ago and finally loves covering hair, but who fargins others to do as they wish.

mommy3b2c

Tue, Nov 07 2017, 8:17 am

watergirl wrote:

I hope you found one that you like and wear it in good health!
Signed, a woman who stopped wearing sheitels years ago and finally loves covering hair, but who fargins others to do as they wish.

Bh, I did buy one yesterday! Then last night I was looking to put it away, because I knew I left it on the dining room table and I couldn’t find it. I was frantic, and then my husband found it in the garbage can!!!

weasley

Tue, Nov 07 2017, 8:22 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

Ohmyworrdd!!!! So glad you found it before it was too late!!!!!!!!

amother

Sienna

Tue, Nov 07 2017, 8:27 am

Vermillion you're totally correct
That's why many women today are choosing to wear a tichel- it's why so many Gedolim endorsed tichels as being the ideal way to cover and screamed about Many wigs being pritzus. The original sheitels that were allowed were nothing like today's wigs. They were very wiggy and looked like a head covering- that's why they were allowed. With all the new technology wigs look just like ones own hair or much nicer most of the time. And it's exactly the same as wearing clothes that look like the body parts underneath it. It will attract provocative male attention
covering our hair has everything to do with modesty- it's why we cover our hair!
This can be twisted in every way possible- the truth is obvious to those who are open to it. I understand it- I used to wear long gorgeous wigs outside and boy did I feel great about myself! And boy did I get attention and smiles from men. It was exhilarating and totally wrong. When I started wearing tichels there was an instant barrier between me and other men- they are very respectful and almost talk to me like I'm a Rebbetzin. But I like that- I have no inner guilt and I feel like it's what Hashem wants. My focus is much more external and I'm not looking to impress other anymore or fit in to secular expectations of women looking externally beautiful. I look and feel like a married religious Jewish woman who is covering her hair in an obvious manner. My davening changed and my relationship with Hashem feels different.
As we all know- kavod takes us out of this world. There's so much focus today on external superficial beauty- which is the opposite of Torah values. The sheitel has become another vehicle for this

SuperWify

Tue, Nov 07 2017, 8:46 am

amother wrote:

It doesn't matter if she knows if she's unavailable to other men, other men have to know that she's married and covering her hair. She can't be a stumbling block to men and attract their attention- hair is a major source of attraction for a woman. Married woman are supposed to be beautiful at home for their husbands only. I never said women should look ugly outside, but they are supposed to downplay their beauty outside where other men see them. Beautiful wigs do the opposite. Tznius is all about covering oneself in a way that does not provoke men. The Torah states in many places how attractive hair is. Kisui rosh is not a chok. It states clearly in many places why we have to cover our hair.

The reason that the Torah prohibits a married woman to reveal her hair is the following:
אסור גלוי הראש אינו אלא משום פריצות דגברי (תרומת הדשן)
The prohibition of revealing one’s hair is because hair is Pritzus. Since the hair of a married woman is attractive to another man and can cause him to sin, it must be covered.

Single women are trying to attract a mate so they don't need to cover their hair. It doesn't mean that they could wear unrefined hair styles.
A married women has to have an extra level of tznius upon marriage- it's a grave sin for a man to look at a married woman. Hence she is commanded to cover her hair which is a major source of attraction.
And no- wigs today do not look like wigs at all. They look just like a woman's own hair and therefore have the same attraction as her own hair.

Here we go again...
Covering hair is a chok.
A woman is certainly allowed to be be pretty outside her home. It’s really NOT all about the bedroom.

SuperWify

Tue, Nov 07 2017, 8:51 am

To be clear. There are two separate issues:
1. Cover your hair ( snood, wig, hat, pail...)
2. Make sure your covering is tznius ( as with all areas of dress) and this can include Tichels too! If I walk around Lakewood with a colorful wrap piled on my head wrapped with beads and fake gems I will get just as many stares as if I was wearing a long zexy highlited natural looking wig ( I don’t)

Notsobusy

Tue, Nov 07 2017, 8:54 am

amother wrote:

Non Jews and secular Jews recognize the hypocrisy right away. In a new book all about hair, a non Jewish professor wrote:
"The logic of the sheitel is elusive to most people outside the Orthodox milieu and poses complex questions even to people within it. What is the logic of covering hair with hair? Don't naturalistic wigs that can't be recognized as wigs defeat the very purpose of covering? How can it be permissible for a woman to use her own hair in her sheitel when the only reason she is wearing it is to hide her hair? And if a wig is more attractive than the hair it covers doesn't it attract rather than deflect male attention? By investing so much time and money on wigs, aren't women prioritizing material over spiritual matters? Are today's sheitels actually more about fashion than modesty? Can the two be compatible?"

If we would only do things that non Jews and secular Jews could understand, we wouldn't have any frum Jews left.

amother

Vermilion

Tue, Nov 07 2017, 9:02 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

We cover our hair because we are supposed to. Not to make ourselves less attractive. If your shaitel is extremely s-xy, that’s a probalem with tznius, not with covering the hair.

So you're saying that the reason woman cover their hair is because "they are supposed to". Are you denying the obvious truth that the premise of this rule has everything to do with modesty? And we only have to go one step further to acknowledge how absurd this whole thing is when for the sake of modesty, we cover our hair with something less modest!
For the record, I'm not judging anyone. My shaitels are all less modest then my hair.

amother

Emerald

Tue, Nov 07 2017, 9:21 am

amother wrote:

If it’s about modesty, why aren’t single women covering their hair?

mommy3b2c

Tue, Nov 07 2017, 9:24 am

amother wrote:

Correct. I am denying the “truth” that the premise of this mitzvah is modesty. I was always taught that it is a chok. We don’t know the reason. We do it because we are supposed to. Modesty is completely separate from this mitzvah.

amother

Sienna

Tue, Nov 07 2017, 10:01 am

And I was taught it is not a chok at all with many Torah sources for it to show that it's all about modesty
I only quoted one of them. I'm not going to start quoting Rav Falk with all the many sources showing how it's completely about not attracting male attention because I dont think women are interested in hearing that now. And there are many other sources for it as well.
it was for any other reason than it wouldn't be ok for women to see our hair or to have it uncovered in our homes where other men can't see us. Until the Zohar came and talked about the incredible merit of always having hair covered all the time from a kabbalistic view point women did not cover their hair at home. That's proof enough that it's about modesty- men are not supposed to see us with attractive hair!
Why else would we have to cover our hair?? And please don't tell me how it's to create privacy- that makes no sense at all.

mommy3b2c

Tue, Nov 07 2017, 10:05 am

amother wrote:

As I said. I don’t know why. We don’t know exactly why. There are speculations but no exact reasons. Just like shabbos. Or kosher. I do it because I’m supposed to.

amother

Vermilion

Tue, Nov 07 2017, 10:07 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

The gemara says that hair is erotik and sensual thus prohibiting men from davening when it's in plain site. Another mishnah says various reasons that are grounds for divorce such as not covering hair in public, and talking to a man. The basic understanding is that it is a modesty issue. Of course these days woman talk to men all the time, but it seems the hair covering has stuck. I'm surprised you think that hair covering is a chok the way para aduma is. Any rabbi, whether to the left or right will acknowledge that it is connected to modesty.

mommy3b2c

Tue, Nov 07 2017, 10:10 am

amother wrote:

The gemara says that hair is [inappropriate] and sensual thus prohibiting men from davening when it's in plain site. Another mishnah says various reasons that are grounds for divorce such as not covering hair in public, and talking to a man. The basic understanding is that it is a modesty issue. Of course these days woman talk to men all the time, but it seems the hair covering has stuck. I'm surprised you think that hair covering is a chok the way para aduma is. Any rabbi, whether to the left or right will acknowledge that it is connected to modesty.

Nope. My rabbis say that it’s a separate mitzvah from modesty. That’s why you are allowed to wear a shaitel. The mitzvah is to cover your hair. Not to look like you don’t have hair.

Wearing a modest shaitel is a separate issue. That falls under the same category as wearing your hair in a modest style.

amother

Vermilion

Tue, Nov 07 2017, 10:11 am

amother wrote:

If it’s about modesty, why aren’t single women covering their hair?

First of all, I believe some shita's hold that single woman should cover their hair. Obviously nobody holds by this. Secondly, it seems reasonable that there should be a higher standard of modesty for married woman as opposed to single woman.