Imamothes please identify ur 'sector'..

chanchy123

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 3:10 am

amother wrote:

I was lubavitch, tried modern orthodoxy, realised it had nothing to do with what I did physically but that I simply don't believe in God or Torah in any way.

Thanks for taking the time to satisfy my curiosity.
I hope you are at peace now and things are working out for you and I'm sorry you didn't find what you were looking for in Jewish observance.

chanchy123

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 3:20 am

SpottedBanana wrote:

Under my screenname -- I wish you much clarity in your life, but this forum is meant for frum women and I, for one, am still operating on Imamother as if all the amothers giving me advice are frum women. Maybe I am naive to believe that, but I would like to make it as true as possible.

I think you should probably start another thread for this topic - because it is taking away from the original question.

That being said, I am going to give my two cents, because why the heck not Wink

?

I think that a woman who grew up with in the frum community belongs here. In Israel, formerly frum people are certainly part of the religious community, culturally and socially.

I agree it wouldn't be fair for a no-longer observant poster to give advice on halacha or hashkafa, but why shouldn't she give a kugel recipe or advice on how to deal with an annoying MIL on a three day YT, as long as her advice isn't ditch your house and go to the movies - I think her advice is relevant and could be very useful, she's BTDT she knows the mindset and if she's still on her she obviously still feels a part of the community, even if she no longer believes or practices. I'm sure she's not on here to mock observant Jews (like certain former posters...) or to encourage us all to go off the derech.

amother

Lilac

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 3:56 am

OP here..I wish I could adjust the options, like add chabad as a separate category, but unfortunately as some users have mentioned, u cannot change a poll once its posted.
So although this poll obv isn't completely accurate, I definitely think it gives us a good idea of who the users are.

amother

Lilac

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 4:00 am

One thing im really curious about...
Is 'frum' a word that MO people use to describe themselves?? Please dont rip me apart..Im truly trying to get this whole thing..maybe its because in my mind frum included only the first 3 categories. Again I am not here to judge or criticsize anyone, I am just trying to understand if MO people consider themselves 'frum'?

amother

White

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 4:02 am

chanchy123 wrote:

Thank you and as it happens I don't give advice or thoughts really when it comes to halacha or hashkafa, except recently when someone asked a question and I answered with what my rav had told me (I'd asked the question years ago when I was frum), and don't see why it would be wrong to answer as it's nothing to do with where I'm at now.
I wanted to just clarify that, for me that's a matter of respect I think, but I've been part of imamother for more than 10 years I think and have had support and have also given support to lots of women and unless I get told by yael to leave I'd rather not.

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 4:07 am

amother wrote:

The fact that you are asking shows just how sheltered some people are.
I am modern orthodox and OF COURSE I AM FRUM.

To me frum is keeping shabbat, kashrut and taharat hamishpacha. Frum means religious, no?
If you really think that only chassidhs, yeshivish and charedi are frum, you have a LOOOOT to learn. And I wont rip you apart, but just realize how insulting that is.

amother

Lilac

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 4:09 am

This forum is clearly labelled as Imamother- connecting FRUM women- it doesnt say connecting All Jewish women- It doesnt say connecting All types of women- it doesnt say connecting formerly frum women either, and therefore I do think its misleading to have women who dont fit the category to be active users. I was under the impression that the questionnaire to become a member was designed for exactly this purpose- to filter out those who can become active members..and those that might not fit into the category, and yet they can still browse the site and look up recipes, and neutral stuff.

amother

Lilac

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 4:13 am

[b][b][quote="shabbatiscoming"]The fact that you are asking shows just how sheltered some people are.
I am modern orthodox and OF COURSE I AM FRUM.
To me frum is keeping shabbat, kashrut and taharat hamishpacha. Frum means religious, no?
quote][/b]

I guess this is a matter of debate- checkout what wikipedia defines as frum-
''To be frum means to be committed to the observance of Jewish religious law that often exceeds the bare requirements of Halakha, the collective body of Jewish religious laws. This not only includes the careful study of Torah, daily prayers, observing Shabbat and kashrut, and performing deeds of loving-kindness but also many more customs and khumrot''[/b]

chanchy123

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 4:33 am

amother wrote:

Yes, MO people consider themselves (ourselves?) frum. We also consider ourselves Orthodox.

chanchy123

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 4:38 am

amother wrote:

But amother was frum when she joined this site, she didn't deceive anyone. She is part of this community. We don't kick women off after they are divorced or widowed God forbid - even though they are no longer married. I'm sure that if she were violating the guidelines she would be asked to leave but as long as she respects the guidelines and stays within them she's one of us. She is part of this community for better or worse.

There should be exceptions for every rule. I have gathered that there are posters here who have never been married and in the past at least there were Conservative posters here - Yael gave them special permission to stay because they respect the rules and enrich our community. I strongly feel this should be the case for formerly frum women who have been part of this community and wish to remain.

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 4:39 am

[quote="amother"][b][b]

shabbatiscoming wrote:

The fact that you are asking shows just how sheltered some people are.
I am modern orthodox and OF COURSE I AM FRUM.
To me frum is keeping shabbat, kashrut and taharat hamishpacha. Frum means religious, no?
quote][/b]

I guess this is a matter of debate- checkout what wikipedia defines as frum-
''To be frum means to be committed to the observance of Jewish religious law that often exceeds the bare requirements of Halakha, the collective body of Jewish religious laws. This not only includes the careful study of Torah, daily prayers, observing Shabbat and kashrut, and performing deeds of loving-kindness but also many more customs and khumrot''[/b]

Im sorry but wikipedia is not how I am going to look up what being orthodox means.

But if it did, what part of the definition does not include modern orthodox people? Also, like I said, orthodox is just english for frum. Frum is just either yiddish or yinglish. Dati means religious and orthodox mean religious as well.

amother

Blonde

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 4:40 am

[quote="amother"][b][b]

shabbatiscoming wrote:

The fact that you are asking shows just how sheltered some people are.
I am modern orthodox and OF COURSE I AM FRUM.
To me frum is keeping shabbat, kashrut and taharat hamishpacha. Frum means religious, no?
quote][/b]

I guess this is a matter of debate- checkout what wikipedia defines as frum-
''To be frum means to be committed to the observance of Jewish religious law that often exceeds the bare requirements of Halakha, the collective body of Jewish religious laws. This not only includes the careful study of Torah, daily prayers, observing Shabbat and kashrut, and performing deeds of loving-kindness but also many more customs and khumrot''[/b]

I'm not sure Wikipedia is the authoritative source for defining frumkeit, but even if it were, there are many customs and chumras observed in the MO world as well.

amother

Lilac

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 4:46 am

amother wrote:

I'm not sure Wikipedia is the authoritative source for defining frumkeit, but even if it were, there are many customs and chumras observed in the MO world as well.

Of course wikipedia isnt thee authoratitive source for defining frumkeit! But it does show that for the majority being 'frum' includes more than just shabbos, kashrut and family purity.
Pls clue me in to what types of customs and chumrahs are observed in the MO world.

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 4:47 am

amother wrote:

what do YOU think being orthodox/frum/dati/religious means? And why do you think modern orthodox people dont make the cut?

amother

Lilac

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 4:54 am

Im sorry if I inadvertantly hurt you..that is really not my intention..
to me, Frum includes- Chareidei/ultra orthodox and then there is a second category of
dati/orthodox/MO..
I am not ranking anyone or anything, I am merely stating what is the general accepted view- (checked wikipedia to see that I wasnt hallucinating)

etky

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 4:54 am

https://ohr.edu/ask_db/ask_main.php/254/Q2/

"Frum is a Yiddish word. It originally meant "pious." In Europe, when all Jews were Torah-observant, "frum" meant one who was exceptionally religious and righteous.

Today, when so many Jews are not Torah-observant, "frum" has come to mean anyone who believes in the Torah and is observant of its laws."

Not sure there is one definitive answer but I think that Ohr Sameach is at least as legitimate a source as Wikipedia...
This was always the definition of frum that I grew up with btw -nothing to do with chumras or being particularly pious.

chanchy123

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 4:56 am

amother wrote:

Being MO is a lot more than keeping shabbat kashrut and nida. We are frum Jews who follow (or at least try to follow) halacha in all aspects of our lives, Torah values are important to us, and we are committed Jews.

Yes, we may interpret halacha differently, perhaps in a more lenient way than other streams of Judaism. We don't believe that seeking chumras is a value, but do appreciate when people take upon themselves a certain stringency on an individual basis to become better Jews. Some MO Jews are lax in halacha observance (but so are frum Jews from other groups).

There is a very wide range of people who identify as Modern Orthodox we all follow halacha - some maybe more than others, but that's because we're human, not because of our ideology.

You are welcome to check out some past threads on this topic.

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Dec 05 2017, 4:57 am

amother wrote:

by whom?
and I grew up MO and we were always called frum.

and it doesnt hurt me. it just shows how sheltered so many women here are and just dont know any modern orthodox or just plain frum women. modern orthodox jews are frum like chassidish people, like charedi as well.

As etky just said, frum is just yiddish. dati and orthodox mean the same.